WI: Byzantine Victory at the Battle of Dyrrhachium (1081) ?

Sevarics

Sevarics

What if Alexios had won a decisive victory at the Battle of Dyrrhachium (1081) ? IOTL, Alexios had had the Normans pinned down in a siege between the Citadel at Dyrrachium. His advisors were split in two groups, those who counseled a more conservative approach of continuing the siege and those who counseled a more aggressive attack. Alexios did not listen to caution in OTL and despite early advances from his Varangian Guards, when the Varangians overextended themselves, his forces crumbled and fled.

What if Alexios had heeded to the more cautious councilors and continued his siege against the pinned in Normans and starved them out ? The Balkans would be spared two years of war and the de Hautevilles might lose some of their commanders (Robert Guiscard, Bohemond, etc.) and Alexios wouldn’t need to bribe the Holy Roman Empire into invading Sicily.
 

Prince Daemon Targaryen

Byzantines probably would've still needed to call the crusade, but they'd have a larger army and more treasure, so probably could take advantage of it and battle the Seljuks more. Maybe even conquer the Sultanate of Rum

Would also mean that Raymond of Toulouse would have a leg up in controlling the crusade since Bohemond wouldn't be as formidable
 
Sevarics

Sevarics

The Congressman said:
Byzantines probably would've still needed to call the crusade, but they'd have a larger army and more treasure, so probably could take advantage of it and battle the Seljuks more. Maybe even conquer the Sultanate of Rum

Would also mean that Raymond of Toulouse would have a leg up in controlling the crusade since Bohemond wouldn't be as formidable
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which would mean Antioch is given back to the Byzantines when the Crusaders capture it ?
 

Silver01

the empire is spared 3 years of dealing directly with them and Alexios can start reforms earlier when the normans fully stopped being a threat in 1085, only two years later did the pechenegs arrive and he did not deal with them till 1091, a major victory in 1081, also gives Alexios prestige like OTL 1091, so some of the revolts and conspiracies do not occur, so alexios is given some 5 years of relative peace which he could enact reforms or attack the turks so it depends what Alexios does
 
Sevarics

Sevarics

The Congressman said:
You’d prob have a larger Byzantine force with them at Antioch, which means the Crusaders don’t feel betrayed. Raymond would become King of Jerusalem
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but Raymond was offered IOTL and refused because he was so pious he thought being called King of Jerusalem was heretical
 

ike225

The Roman army that got destroyed at Dyrrachium IOTL, was the core of the Roman army with lots of veterans from the decade of civil war. With this army continuing to exist, Alexios might re-establish the old Theme system or at least re-invigorate it, which benefits the empire in the long run instead of the Komnenian military reforms.
Without Italo-Normans running around the Balkan, killing and plundering, its economy doesn't suffer and it wealth remains within the empire. Especially since there would be no need to give massive concessions to the Venetians which fucked the Roman economy and tax base in the long run since they wouldn't become as dominant in the trade and the financial economy.
Alexios not needing to pay tons of money to re-establish his army three times. Nor does he need to pay +300k to HRE to distract the Hautevilles.
All wealth that can be invested in rebuilding the Roman economy, especially since Alexios can now focus on financial reforms like dealing with the debased currency.
The glory of defeating Guiscard will lift up Alexios his prestige and as said already will stop several conspiracies and revolts that happened during the first decade of his reign.
The Pechenegs might not be as troublesome as OTL and Alexios might be able to use them more in the reconquest of Anatolia.

With Guiscard and Bohemond dead and the majority of their army defeated, the Italo-Normans might regard the Romans as an empire/people even they are unable to conquer. Hell maybe even giving it more respect in the rest of Christendom. Italo-Normans will probably focus on Sicily and maybe more on Africa instead.

The Romans will still request aid from the West in dealing with the Seljuks/Turcomen, but will be stronger as they will have most probably already reconquered the Anatolian lowlands/coastline. Cilicia will probably become a more self-governing region of the empire and the Romans will reclaim Antioch.
 

Elfwine

The Congressman said:
If the Normans implode, Alexius could attempt to reconquer them once the the Turks are dealt with.
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He could, I suppose. I'd say resecuring Anatolia comes before imploded Normans, though. Having them too busy at each other's throats may be cheaper and safer, and southern Italy is not vital to hold - although it would be nice to have it in friendlier hands than the OTL rulers were.
 

Prince Daemon Targaryen

Elfwine said:
He could, I suppose. I'd say resecuring Anatolia comes before imploded Normans, though. Having them too busy at each other's throats may be cheaper and safer, and southern Italy is not vital to hold - although it would be nice to have it in friendlier hands than the OTL rulers were.
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Sevarics said:
I guess it depends on if Alexios is able to regain all of Anatolia in this timeline. If not, I don’t see him getting involved in Southern Italy.
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I clarify that this would be many years later, giving it some time for the region to destabilize. A Norman invasion even if it was defeated at Dyrrachium would be too dangerous to repeat again by the next group owning southern Italy, so the Byzantines would probably see it as a necessary buffer zone once Anatolia is dealt with.

Basically the Crusaders deal with Antioch and the Holy Land, Roman army goes after the Turks and with its larger size doesn't have to stop anymore. Afterwards, they turn to Italy and Sicily. Would provide a lot of sorely needed wealth for Constantinople
 
Kohlticus Euraleth

Kohlticus Euraleth

The Congressman said:
I clarify that this would be many years later, giving it some time for the region to destabilize. A Norman invasion even if it was defeated at Dyrrachium would be too dangerous to repeat again by the next group owning southern Italy, so the Byzantines would probably see it as a necessary buffer zone once Anatolia is dealt with.

Basically the Crusaders deal with Antioch and the Holy Land, Roman army goes after the Turks and with its larger size doesn't have to stop anymore. Afterwards, they turn to Italy and Sicily. Would provide a lot of sorely needed wealth for Constantinople
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It's definitely a helpful buffer on top of the wealth, but only once the Romans are able to reclaim atleast the 9th century frontiers in Anatolia. Anything less than that and you don't have the defensive depth to handle a third frontier to worry about.
 
Sevarics

Sevarics

The Congressman said:
I clarify that this would be many years later, giving it some time for the region to destabilize. A Norman invasion even if it was defeated at Dyrrachium would be too dangerous to repeat again by the next group owning southern Italy, so the Byzantines would probably see it as a necessary buffer zone once Anatolia is dealt with.

Basically the Crusaders deal with Antioch and the Holy Land, Roman army goes after the Turks and with its larger size doesn't have to stop anymore. Afterwards, they turn to Italy and Sicily. Would provide a lot of sorely needed wealth for Constantinople
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I would still be worried about continued Turkish incursions. The Seljuks in Persia would still funnel the central Asian migrations into Anatolia even if the Byzantines conquered the Seljuks of Rum.
 

Prince Daemon Targaryen

Sevarics said:
I would still be worried about continued Turkish incursions. The Seljuks in Persia would still funnel the central Asian migrations into Anatolia even if the Byzantines conquered the Seljuks of Rum.
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It’s less of a threat when Caesarea or Theodosiopolis are your main forward bases rather than Dorylaeum

Plus the Seljuks we’re gonna collapse anyway
 
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