WI Brazilian axis collaborators in case of invasion.

[Gukpard]

I gonna tag anyone who might come up with names. Please, help us @Antonio the Komnenoi @Guilherme Loureiro @ByzantineCaesar @Vinization, and whoever you can also tag.

So Nazi Germany somehow invade Brazil and put up a pro axis dictatorship, who are figures who would take part in this new regime?

I don't think they would put a fascist only cabinet, instead they would go for a far right front like Vichy France. The dictator might be Francisco Campos (the most pro axis minister at the time, he also led the infamous fascist party Legião mineira on the 30s). Other pro axis cabinet members such as Lourival Fontes might be reinstated.

The army is a bit tricky because the people who are usually classified as axis simpatisers are not exactly pro axis but fanboys of the Wehrmacht (as soon the USA army won the war they became US fanboys instead). So maybe Dutra won't accept to be the chief of staff. Newton Estillac Leal (who write the law that banned the freemasonry in 1940) won't accept since he was a fundamentalist Catholic and wouldn't accept the Nazis trying to control the clergy, so what about Orlando Geisel? Could he lead the reorganized army?

Enterpreuners, industrialists, oligarchs, does any name come to mind?

 

[Vinization]

I assume the Integralists were completely broken at this time, yes? That diminishes the list of potential collaborators a fair bit.

 

[ByzantineCaesar]

I assume the Integralists were completely broken at this time, yes? That diminishes the list of potential collaborators a fair bit.

Even then I don’t believe the Nazis would put Integralists in charge. Integralist ideology emphasized mixed blood, which wouldn’t fly well with the Nazis.

Realistically, they would likely put a German in charge, at least at first. There are a lot of authoritarian-inclined public persons in Brazil, but I don’t think most of them would consent to the Reich’s racial policy being implemented in Brazil due to strategic reasons. Even the monarchists and Catholic authoritarians at the time believed in a mixed population.

 

[Gukpard]

I assume the Integralists were completely broken at this time, yes? That diminishes the list of potential collaborators a fair bit.

Integralism is also against naziism for being too anticlerical

Realistically, they would likely put a German in charge, at least at first.

And who would collaborate with that German?

 

[Post]

So Nazi Germany somehow invade Brazil

How are they going to do that? This is crazier than Sealion.

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

How are they going to do that? This is crazier than Sealion.

His question isn’t how Germany invaded Brazil, it’s what the Brazilian government would look like had they invaded and conquered it

 

[Post]

His question isn’t how Germany invaded Brazil, it’s what the Brazilian government would look like had they invaded and conquered it

Great. Who knows. Because Germany doing that means a totally different Germany, UK and US than OTL (otherwise they won't be able to invade), so you can pretty much do whatever you want. You're going to need PODs so far back, that you don't have to bother with our current historical figuers. Too many butterflies.

 

[Gukpard]

How are they going to do that? This is crazier than Sealion.

Hey, relax.

Like, we had this thread about British SS divisions in case of sealion, everyone agreed that it was impossible, but it was fun to plan such scenario. Here is similar to that, the invasion is impossible, but it is interesting to think of the aftermath.

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

I'll not debate whether the premise is likely or not(it isn't, IMO). That being said...

It's a hard question - IMO, not even Olímpio Mourão Filho would have accepted it(like Estillac Leal, IMO, he was more of a catholic traditionalist and anti-communist, not a fascist). The fact that the Nazis would alienate both the Catholic Church and the Integralists empties the pool of possible candidates.

Orlando Geisel was mentioned as a possible Army commander, but IMO, he would be too junior for that(promoted to Major in 1941, Lieutenant-Colonel in 1945). It reminds me that the Brazilian Nazi Party was strong among German immigrants, so my guess is they would have drawn heavily from the party ranks, and therefore from the German diaspora in Brazil.

 

[Gukpard]

I'll not debate whether the premise is likely or not(it isn't, IMO). That being said...

It's a hard question - IMO, not even Olímpio Mourão Filho would have accepted it(like Estillac Leal, IMO, he was more of a catholic traditionalist and anti-communist, not a fascist). The fact that the Nazis would alienate both the Catholic Church and the Integralists empties the pool of possible candidates.

Orlando Geisel was mentioned as a possible Army commander, but IMO, he would be too junior for that(promoted to Major in 1941, Lieutenant-Colonel in 1945). It reminds me that the Brazilian Nazi Party was strong among German immigrants, so my guess is they would have drawn heavily from the party ranks, and therefore from the German diaspora in Brazil.

It... Was not.

It had less than 10% on the German community, and they adopted a stupid rule to ban Germans born in Brazil from it, so most oft heir members were poor German speaking first wave immigrants. There is no important name they could appoint.

A important German Brazilian who is quite authoritarian was Lindolfo Collor, but he crossed the line for being anti dictatorships so he's not a option too.

What about Filinto Müller?

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

What about Filinto Müller?

He was an opportunist and anti-communist(although that may have been due to his pissing match with Prestes), so maybe.

 

[Gukpard]

He was an opportunist and anti-communist(although that may have been due to his pissing match with Prestes), so maybe.

Ok, so he might be installed as a Generalíssimo, and to take part of @ByzantineCaesar idea, the germans can assign a german officer with latin ancestry as a Governor General (like Terboven in norway), maybe Gert Bastian

Could Orlando Geisel be kicked upstairs by the germans to be chief os staff since there is no other figure for this?

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

Could Orlando Geisel be kicked upstairs by the germans to be chief os staff since there is no other figure for this?

He could, but I'd say there would be someone senior to him in his place - the Brazilian Army, while not on the level of the Spanish Army pre-Civil War, had a low officer/enlisted ratio(still does, somewhat). So, there would likely be candidates(even if we may not know them).

 

[Gukpard]

He could, but I'd say there would be someone senior to him in his place - the Brazilian Army, while not on the level of the Spanish Army pre-Civil War, had a low officer/enlisted ratio(still does, somewhat). So, there would likely be candidates(even if we may not know them).

Loureiro, what about Monteiro Lobato? Could he make children's books praising the new regime?

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

I could see someone like Gustavo Barroso, the one that translated the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and was a very known admirer of the German Reich and virulent anti-Semite to be a potential Quisling figure in Brazil. As for others, Brazilian politicians were always known to be very opportunistic, it wouldn’t be surprising that many figures of OTL would flip over for a cabinet position.

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

Loureiro, what about Monteiro Lobato? Could he make children's books praising the new regime?

Hmm. Lobato was a nationalist(as you can see in the story about Dona Benta exploring oil in her farm). He also called the Germans in one of his books a '...proud people. Maybe too proud'(this is a paraphrase - I'm recalling a passage of a book I've read some 35 years ago when I was a child), when talking about Germany, saying they would start another war soon(that was a 1937 book). I don't think he would collaborate with a Nazi-imposed government.

Ironically enough, I recall reading a PCB member thought he could flip Lobato to their side(Lobato was arrested at least once because he criticized the National Oil Council - and therefore Vargas' - policy on oil exploration in... 1944, IIRC).

EDIT: Agree on Gustavo Barroso - him and his faction would be the only Integralists to collaborate with a Nazi regime.

 

[Gukpard]

Hmm. Lobato was a nationalist(as you can see in the story about Dona Benta exploring oil in her farm). He also called the Germans in one of his books a '...proud people. Maybe too proud'(this is a paraphrase - I'm recalling a passage of a book I've read some 35 years ago when I was a child), when talking about Germany, saying they would start another war soon(that was a 1937 book). I don't think he would collaborate with a Nazi-imposed government.

Ironically enough, I recall reading a PCB member thought he could flip Lobato to their side(Lobato was arrested at least once because he criticized the National Oil Council - and therefore Vargas' - policy on oil exploration in... 1944, IIRC).

EDIT: Agree on Gustavo Barroso - him and his faction would be the only Integralists to collaborate with a Nazi regime.

Well, anyone else come to mind? What about that Brazilian ambassador to he is that banned Jewish immigration? I forgot his name but he's Oswaldo Aranha arch enemy.

 

[kent]

time line??? when does this occur:? Before or after the fall of France? Before or after Dec 7th? Nice idea but needs more info

 

[M79]

Argentina: Sees what's going on in Brazil and smiles as he slowly rises from the dinner table, looks around at the other nations of the Western Hemisphere, and boldly proclaims, "Hold my wine glass and steak knife".

 

[Luxembourgish Jane]

An Axis Brazil is one thing, but I don't really see any reason the Germans/Axis would invade, especially if it is after '41 since now you got the US and the Atlantic Wall... even in '39 Germany had to deal with the British and French navies.