WI: Anne of Bohemia survives, has kids with Richard II

Anne of Bohemia was the wife of Richard II, the last main line Plantagenet who got deposed historically in 1399 by his nephew Henry IV, Duke of Lancaster.

Historically she died of plague in 1395, without the couple having any children. But what if she survived, and produced a son somewhere along the way? Let's call him Edward. He would be of an age for Isabella to marry the Prince of Wales for starters. Anne was said to have had a moderating influence on Richard; perhaps a living son and wife mellows him somewhat, and the murder of Gloucester and Arundel doesn't happen. Regardless, even if Bolongbroke ends up deposing Richard, I would think that he would not be able to depose his nephew; my gut says Henry would be content, at least initially, to play the role of his father John of Gaunt, and become the eminence grise behind his underaged nephew's throne.
 
Anne surviving would be brilliant for Richard in the long term. Richard seems to have kind of lost it after her death, so with her living he's going to be in a much better position. Isabella might be a bit too old to marry Richard's son, but it could happen. Might her survival butterfly the Revenge Parliament?

@CaptainShadow
 
Thing is, iotl Richard took the Lords Appellants' destruction of his government personally (can't blame him lol), so I think Gloucester and Arundel are still toast, regardless of Anne's moderating influence. Mowbray and Bolingbroke may not be exiled, however as it was a relatively close case iotl. If they still are, idk, Bolingbroke can get the regency or die at Percy hands.

Considering Isabella would be a good 6 years Edward's senior, I wouldn't say she's likely. Her younger sister Michelle with the same dowry as OTL would be "likelier" imo, though whether or not he's married as of Richard's otl death is debatable. Without the massive French dowry, Richard wouldn't have enough funds for his centralization I think, so part of the reason his nobles were dissatisfied is butterflied. He may centralize in a "slower" fashion, or do it after his son is married, presumably in the mid 10s.

And, of course, without the Bolingbroke usurpation you don't see Glyndwr and perhaps not Percy (as that was largely related).
 
Well, there are two possibilities for Anne having a kid (IMO):

One, her miscarriage of 1384-1386 mentioned in the undated letter to her brother, Vaclav, King of Bohemia, carries to term (and we have a kid who's older than Isabeau de Valois).
Or two, the less common theory that her death was caused by an ectopic pregnancy (rather than plague or leprosy). Here, she gives birth to a child in 1395 without complications but is probably unable to have more children.

Either child could have interesting results.
 
Yeah, a lot of the complaints against Richard come across as aristocratic bickering, though he certainly didn't help his case.

Whether the 1386 or 1395 potential pregnancies go through, I think it's doubtful Anne will bring more than one child to term. The Luxemburgs had issues with fertility in this period.

I wonder if her relations in Germany could become relevant. The Luxemburg dynasty once ruled in both Brabant and Luxemburg, and England maintained pretensions to the suzerainty of Flanders, and of course one of Henry V's brothers ended up marrying Jacqueline of Holland and Hainaut. If the House of Burgundy has a falling out with the English, then perhaps Edward or his successors might make a play for the Low Countries, perhaps even the Holy Roman Empire.
 
I wonder if Richad's ATL descendants could be taken into account as successors of Sigismund of Luxembourg in Bohemia? And Plantagenets looking again for Imperial throne, that also would be interesting.
 
I wonder if her relations in Germany could become relevant. The Luxemburg dynasty once ruled in both Brabant and Luxemburg, and England maintained pretensions to the suzerainty of Flanders, and of course one of Henry V's brothers ended up marrying Jacqueline of Holland and Hainaut. If the House of Burgundy has a falling out with the English, then perhaps Edward or his successors might make a play for the Low Countries, perhaps even the Holy Roman Empire.
Probably not. After all, Anna was reasonably "far back" in the queue as far as succession went. Only way I could see this happening is if Edward or his son were to marry either Elisabeth of Gorlitz or Elisabeth of Luxemburg
 
Probably not. After all, Anna was reasonably "far back" in the queue as far as succession went. Only way I could see this happening is if Edward or his son were to marry either Elisabeth of Gorlitz or Elisabeth of Luxemburg
Such a marriage would certainly be plausible- Sigismund historically pursued an alliance with Henry V and might well do the same with Edward. Affairs in the Low Countries are unsettled enough that Edward might feel obliged and able to intervene. England had deep ties with Flanders, and had attempted repeatedly to stir up Flemish revolts against their (usually French) overlords. Especially if Louis of Orleans gets assassinated as OTL and the rebellions of Glyndwr and Percy are averted, Edward's government could get roped into a general anti Burgundian alliance of Orleans-Luxembourg-Plantagenet-Gelre.
 
Historically she died of plague in 1395, without the couple having any children. But what if she survived, and produced a son somewhere along the way? Let's call him Edward. He would be of an age for Isabella to marry the Prince of Wales for starters.
Isabella seems like a racing certainty, if Richard survives long enough to wed off his son. (See below re: Lords Appellant.) Richard was obsessed with France and -- unless the birth of an English heir somehow butterflies away Charles VI's breakdown -- the French were desperate for peace by the 1390s.


Anne was said to have had a moderating influence on Richard; perhaps a living son and wife mellows him somewhat, and the murder of Gloucester and Arundel doesn't happen.
Might her survival butterfly the Revenge Parliament?
Thing is, iotl Richard took the Lords Appellants' destruction of his government personally (can't blame him lol), so I think Gloucester and Arundel are still toast, regardless of Anne's moderating influence.
Anne was known as having a "moderating influence," but this refers as much (or more) to her moderating the political community as it does Richard himself. Anne was the figure to whom lords most often brought disputes because the great lords of the realm did not trust Richard to be fair or impartial in his dealings with them.

I think the overstatement of her "moderating influence" on Richard himself is most clear in the fact that he continued to reign without incident and government remained stable for two years after her death. It is not until the marriage to Isabella that the wheels begin to come off. Richard had sought assurances from the French during marriage negotiations that they would support him in a civil war against his own magnates. That he has his revenge so quickly thereafter suggests to me that security the French alliance brought him was a much greater factor in Richard's tyranny than Anne's death and that stories of him becoming mentally unspooled by her death are exaggerated. (This, of course, is not to say that her death had no effect on him.)


Regardless, even if Bolongbroke ends up deposing Richard, I would think that he would not be able to depose his nephew; my gut says Henry would be content, at least initially, to play the role of his father John of Gaunt, and become the eminence grise behind his underaged nephew's throne.
Depending on when the child is born, I think Bolingbroke's 1399 campaign may be butterflied away entirely because -- if Richard had a son in the mid-1380s, as @Kellan Sullivan suggests as one possible date for the boy's birth -- then Bolingbroke's objection to Gloucester deposing Richard in 1387-88 disappears entirely, and Richard may be removed or killed at that time.

Bolingbroke is known to have opposed deposing Richard in OTL 1387-88 for fear that Gloucester would claim the crown for himself, as Bolingbroke's father was out of the country at the time. In an ATL where there is a young prince around, the Lords Appellant -- Bolingbroke included -- may rebel with the intention of removing Richard, putting the young prince on the throne, and governing the realm in his name. To put it simply, Richard is probably dead 12 years earlier in an ATL where he has a son in 1386.


And, of course, without the Bolingbroke usurpation you don't see Glyndwr and perhaps not Percy (as that was largely related).
Wales was going to revolt. It was only a matter of time. The English had been remarkably hard on the Welsh in the decades since the Black Death. The level of resentment toward the local English gentry and the marcher lords was extreme. The place was a powderkeg ready to explode. In OTL, the dispute between Grey and Glydnwr was the match that lit the blue touch paper, but it would only have been a matter of time before some local dispute did the same thing in ATL.


Yeah, a lot of the complaints against Richard come across as aristocratic bickering, though he certainly didn't help his case.
This is a remarkably pro-Ricardian take on the events of his reign :coldsweat:
 
This is a remarkably pro-Ricardian take on the events of his reign :coldsweat:
Yeah, the Commons hated him too by the time of his abdication, and demanded he be tried. So it was not just the nobles grumbling about Richard’s reign. They also unanimously voted to keep him in isolation for the rest of his life.
 
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I would think that Price Edward's existence, especially in 1387, might mean that Richard would imprisoned rather than executed. It's not a good idea to kill your kings father, and even OTL Richard wasn't killed right away.

Of course if Richard gets offed after a failed rebellion, then that raises awkward questions by Edward... would the boy survive the regency, and if he does- does he seek revenge?
 
I would think that Price Edward's existence, especially in 1387, might mean that Richard would imprisoned rather than executed. It's not a good idea to kill your kings father, and even OTL Richard wasn't killed right away.
England has an example of exactly this happening in recent memory for the age, and OTL Richard only survived because Bolingbroke chose a policy of reconciliation in 1399 to intentionally distance himself from Gloucester's Merciless Parliament and appear more kingly. Northumberland and others advised Henry to kill Richard as soon as he came into Henry's custody and again ahead of parliament, when it appeared Richard may not abdicate.


Of course if Richard gets offed after a failed rebellion, then that raises awkward questions by Edward... would the boy survive the regency, and if he does- does he seek revenge?
Why would he? If he is born in 1386ish and his father is killed in 1388ish, then all he would ever know is whatever his protectors told him.
 
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