WI; All 3 of Henry the 7ths sons survive?

[WorstOfHumanity]

What if (King) Arthur, Henry Duke of York and Edmund Duke of Somerset all survive to adulthood? I am most interested in Edmund, as he is the biggest question mark of the bunch...

For the sake of the scenario, I will say that Arthur still marries Catherine of Aragon and both survive their sickness unscathed. Henry in turn marries Margaret of Angeloume, as he was offered to do in reality.

Who could Edmund marry? How will he and Henry's lives unfold, if Arthur is able to live and sire heirs? Would this ensure the longevity of the Tudor dynasty, or could it actually be a detriment long term?

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

Well, here's a scenario:

TL;dr: Harlequin romance in which surviving Edmund falls in love with a relatively low-born lady-in-waiting of Queen Catherine, which offends his brother King Arthur. (Henry's around too, and gets in trouble.) Author's site page here.

 

[Happiness]

He may marry Elizabeth Grey, 5th Baroness of Lisle. I always imagine Edmund as the more introverted brother who is similar to Arthur but is the complete opposite of Henry. He can follow his father's example of being faithful to his wife.

 

[isabella]

What if (King) Arthur, Henry Duke of York and Edmund Duke of Somerset all survive to adulthood? I am most interested in Edmund, as he is the biggest question mark of the bunch...

For the sake of the scenario, I will say that Arthur still marries Catherine of Aragon and both survive their sickness unscathed. Henry in turn marries Margaret of Angeloume, as he was offered to do in reality.

Who could Edmund marry? How will he and Henry's lives unfold, if Arthur is able to live and sire heirs? Would this ensure the longevity of the Tudor dynasty, or could it actually be a detriment long term?

Edmund can marry either Elizabeth Grey, baroness Lisle who is born in 1505, or Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne who is born in 1498

 

[WorstOfHumanity]

Edmund can marry either Elizabeth Grey, baroness Lisle who is born in 1505, or Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne who is born in 1498

Is Madeleine not a bit too high for a third son?

 

[BoleynBuff]

Is Madeleine not a bit too high for a third son?

…No? Not like she’s a king’s daughter or even a princess of the blood.

 

[Janprimus]

Is Madeleine not a bit too high for a third son?

By the same reasoning isn't Elizabeth Grey a bit too low? Isn't there a better heiress available?

 

[isabella]

Is Madeleine not a bit too high for a third son?

She is a french noblewoman and an heiress, but has just vague blood connection to the royal family. Her aunt married the younger brother of the King of Scotland (an exiled rebel) and her sister married their cousin. In OTL she married Lorenzo de‘ Medici who was nephew of the Pope but barely titled and not from a ruling family. The third son of the King of England is a better match than the one she got OTL and comparable to the one of her sister.

By the same reasoning isn't Elizabeth Grey a bit too low? Isn't there a better heiress available?

Elizabeth Grey was an extremely well connected girl: her mother was an Howard (daughter of the 2nd Duke of Norfolk) while her paternal grandmother was a Talbot (granddaughter of the 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and his Beauchamp wife) while her paternal grandfather was the uncle of Dorset

 

[material_boy]

I am most interested in Edmund, as he is the biggest question mark of the bunch...

Edmund surviving is low key the most interesting Tudor timeline. Catholics having a princely figurehead while Henry threatens to break the church to get a new wife would be a chaotically fun English TL.

 

[Dragonboy]

Edmund surviving is low key the most interesting Tudor timeline. Catholics having a princely figurehead while Henry threatens to break the church to get a new wife would be a chaotically fun English TL.

Not to mention having another male line for the tudors to fall back on

 

[jkarr]

Honestly, if Arthur is alive and well and Henry jrs married, with with heirs on the way, Edmund is gonna get shunted to the priesthood, like the original plan fir Henry Jr was.
He's tge thurd kid, unlikely to succeed. Might as well nip any potential claimant branches off and get some brownie points with the church.

 

[Stahlo]

Edmund surviving is low key the most interesting Tudor timeline. Catholics having a princely figurehead while Henry threatens to break the church to get a new wife would be a chaotically fun English TL.

Edmund really is the wildcard of Tudor timelines. Depending on other factors, he's either a fairly marginal figure, or he's perhaps one of the most consequential players in alt English history. And since he died in infancy, there's a lot of fun to be had with imagining what he could grow up to be.

In a scenario where all three of Henry VII's sons live, Edmund probably marries domestically (though I do like the idea of Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne for the Valois butterflies that would cause down the line) and serves an important position in Arthur's court, but I could also see him being overshadowed by Henry's sheer force of personality.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Honestly, if Arthur is alive and well and Henry jrs married, with with heirs on the way, Edmund is gonna get shunted to the priesthood, like the original plan fir Henry Jr was.
He's tge thurd kid, unlikely to succeed. Might as well nip any potential claimant branches off and get some brownie points with the church.

I highly doubt that Henry VII would send any of his sons to the Church, even if all three of them survived. First off, English kings and royal dukes just didn't send their legitimate sons to the Church, no matter how many they had (see Edward III and Richard, Duke of York). Second, the Tudors are a new dynasty and they need to make sure their male line is as secure as possible. For both of these reasons, I think Henry VII would arrange appropriate marriages for both Henry and Edmund

 

[material_boy]

Not to mention having another male line for the tudors to fall back on

I don't really care about any male line surviving, but I love the idea of Henry having to keep looking over his shoulder because has this brother waiting in the wings. The paranoid delusions he'd likely suffer would be the dramatic icing on the cake that is his marriage soap operatics.

Edmund really is the wildcard of Tudor timelines. Depending on other factors, he's either a fairly marginal figure, or he's perhaps one of the most consequential players in alt English history. And since he died in infancy, there's a lot of fun to be had with imagining what he could grow up to be.

And I for one love imaging how dead young princes might grow up. (coughshamelessselfpromotioncough)

 

[Dragonboy]

I don't really care about any male line surviving, but I love the idea of Henry having to keep looking over his shoulder because has this brother waiting in the wigs. The paranoid delusions he'd likely suffer would be the dramatic icing on the cake that is his marriage soap operatics.

I have to admit that the image of Edmund desperately keeping the kingdom together in the face of his brother... extrabaganza is pretty funny.

 

[material_boy]

I have to admit that the image of Edmund desperately keeping the kingdom together in the face of his brother... extrabaganza is pretty funny.

I imagine something much more tragic than that. Like, Edmund actually is just a rich, handsome young man who likes a good time and is definitely not wanting the responsibility of wearing a crown, but people keep trying to make him the defender of the Catholic faith that Henry claims to be. Edmund actually supporting his brother, but Henry becoming increasingly paranoid that his perceived enemies all like Edmund more than him. His delusions slowly driving a wedge between him and the brother who used to be his best friend, things growing more and more strained over the years ... until something finally snaps.

I want the drama!

 

[Dragonboy]

I imagine something much more tragic than that. Like, Edmund actually is just a rich, handsome young man who likes a good time and is definitely not wanting the responsibility of wearing a crown, but people keep trying to make him the defender of the Catholic faith that Henry claims to be. Edmund actually supporting his brother, but Henry becoming increasingly paranoid that his perceived enemies all like Edmund more than him. His delusions slowly driving a wedge between him and the brother who used to be his best friend, things growing more and more strained over the years ... until something finally snaps.

I want the drama!

The ol devil's brood rearing it's ugly head.

 

[WorstOfHumanity]

Edmund really is the wildcard of Tudor timelines. Depending on other factors, he's either a fairly marginal figure, or he's perhaps one of the most consequential players in alt English history. And since he died in infancy, there's a lot of fun to be had with imagining what he could grow up to be.

In a scenario where all three of Henry VII's sons live, Edmund probably marries domestically (though I do like the idea of Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne for the Valois butterflies that would cause down the line) and serves an important position in Arthur's court, but I could also see him being overshadowed by Henry's sheer force of personality.

Seems like the perfect way to set up a chapter II of the Wars of the Roses... Edmunds pure Catholic line VS either a dubiously legal Edward VI or illegitimate FitzRoy branch

 

[BlueFlowwer]

With Arthur being king, I hardly think Henry or Edmund will get up to too many wild shenanigans as they aren't top dogs in England. But some sort of tension might happen, but it might not as well.