WI: A world without HIV?
- Thread starter woweed
- Start date
Those already of age before the big push about Aids/HIV may have stayed in the game but those of us that came of sexual age in the mid to late 80s having lived through both the news. about HIV and all the stuff aimed at kids scared the living hell out of that (my) generation.
Even in university things were much much more limited then that of my older siblings.
So it had a major effect at least gor a while.
And i really doubt without HIV and the full court press about it aimed at young people that the sexual norm would have pulled back to as “conservative” as it got for a time.
And I have NO idea how in the world no HIV will result in Regan being a one term president.
He wone 59% of the vote , 525 electoral collage and took 49 out of 50 states. No HIV is not change that result enough to see him lose.
The concept that HIV was that significant in the elections results is absurd.
Even in university things were much much more limited then that of my older siblings.
So it had a major effect at least gor a while.
And i really doubt without HIV and the full court press about it aimed at young people that the sexual norm would have pulled back to as “conservative” as it got for a time.
And I have NO idea how in the world no HIV will result in Regan being a one term president.
He wone 59% of the vote , 525 electoral collage and took 49 out of 50 states. No HIV is not change that result enough to see him lose.
The concept that HIV was that significant in the elections results is absurd.
It used to be a background of Freudism, which was even worse!
For example, the theories of Sigmund Freud included that the “primal scene” was a child witnessing his parents having sex. Not abuse, just seeing sex and sometimes just a glimpse. But the theory was that this would really nag at a person, like a grain of sand in your shoe. And [my analogy] a skilled psychoanalyst would help you remove that grain of sand. And please notice, this is very self-serving in that it promotes full employment for psychoanalysts!
So, the heyday of Freudian theory in pop culture maybe from the 1920s to the 80s and maybe even into the 90s.
I think we’re much healthier today believing the here and now matters, too. Where generally a medium effect produces a medium problem. A lot depends on how much social support a person has, and that can’t just be manufactured out of thin air.
I read of a modern U.S. army general saying, If a person goes through combat, he or she is likely going to have some degree of PTSD. And at one point, his Dad was still having some issue from fighting in the Pacific Theater of WWII. And he very matter-of-factly said to his Dad, The VA is there for you, you’re earned it, you might as well use it.
I don’t think this General was being wimpish or anything of the sort. I think he was being realistic.
Not gonna disagree on any of that. Some of us are too proud or to busy fighting demons to get help.It used to be a background of Freudism, which was even worse!
For example, the theories of Sigmund Freud included that the “primal scene” was a child witnessing his parents having sex. Not abuse, just seeing sex and sometimes just a glimpse. But the theory was that this would really nag at a person, like a grain of sand in your shoe. And [my analogy] a skilled psychoanalyst would help you remove that grain of sand. And please notice, this is very self-serving in that it promotes full employment for psychoanalysts!
So, the heyday of Freudian theory in pop culture maybe from the 1920s to the 80s and maybe even into the 90s.
I think we’re much healthier today believing the here and now matters, too. Where generally a medium effect produces a medium problem. A lot depends on how much social support a person has, and that can’t just be manufactured out of thin air.
I read of a modern U.S. army general saying, If a person goes through combat, he or she is likely going to have some degree of PTSD. And at one point, his Dad was still having some issue from fighting in the Pacific Theater of WWII. And he very matter-of-factly said to his Dad, The VA is there for you, you’re earned it, you might as well use it.
I don’t think this General was being wimpish or anything of the sort. I think he was being realistic.
The here and now always mattered.. it's only the level of self absorption and need to be special diamonds that ruin a lot of things.
Ie fine lines on the me me me me me and only me.. hey look at me.. I'm the best blah blah that drives me nuts as I subscribe to the we are the best .. just find what you do best and stay humble ...
If life sucks.. talk, get help, do something about it ( non violent of course )
Cheers
I think talking about it is healthier, as I strongly suspect you agree, too. And maybe, American society is in the beginning to mid- stages of developing skills of practical first aid as far as preventing sexual abuse.
Last edited:
False. Reagan was re-elected by a landslide because the economy recovered in 1983 and '84. All he had to do was say "Do you really want to go back to Carter's policies?"
Plus, Reagan's election in 1980 was the culmination of a massive conservative backlash against the liberalism of the late 1970s. He won because of his conservative views, not in spite of them.
It is, there are lots of things that are quite important to be able to talk about and not just talk about but it is important that others listen, offer guidance and or tangible help. Humans are screwy in the first place, but we only get one life, not sure why it has to suck anymore than it needs too. sometimes just a simple i get it and a hug can change a day and or a life.
cheers
Can this thread not devolve into “we weren’t fucking SNOWFLAKES back then” and stay with the actual topic?
The reality is what young people were is largely the same as they are today. HIV spread and continued to spread because young people like to have sex and the idea of wearing a condom did not appeal, in spite of all the confronting messages. It was still thought of as a gay man's disease for a long time. It took a long time for attitudes to change.
As such, I suspect that life without HIV would basically mean more of the other STDs - including one of the worst of all - unwanted pregnancies. That's because you just wouldn't convince men to wear condoms as effectively as the HIV awareness campaigns eventually did.
And. that topic is what? What happens differently without Aids as it was more iften called back then or HIV as we mostly refer to it now?
But the problem with that argument to keep it on topic is that the psychological effects ARE part of that. For those of us just coming if age as Aids/HIV hit its peak were mostly affected by it mentally not physically. I grew up in the Midwest in well to do conservative suburb. And we had MULTIPLE assemblies and classes and posters and speakers and everything else you can think of talking aboyut hao dangerous Aid/HIV was and how to stay safe (basically ”dont do that”) and this radically changed my generations outlook on sex vs my older siblings that grew up 7-17 years earlier ands came if age imn the 70s before the Aids/HIV crisis,
From the point of view of more famous folks and such the big difference is that a lot of entertainers will live linger and they may produce a few more movies or songs or whatever, But that is hard to predict as who knows how long those entertainers would stay relevant.
So msot of the. effect is psychological. This brings up the question of HOW MUCH it effected folks. and i am sure it ran the spectrum from not at all to never had sex. and all points uin between.
So this did have an effect on a whole generation of relationships and views about sex.
This is also basically a PTSD kind if thing. As we are now well past that point and yet we still live with the reproductions. But PTSD is a strange thing. it effects everyone differently, and it can range from hardly any at all to extreme levels. And we really dont understand why it effects those it does the way it dose. And it can be hidden for years and years.
My dad grew up in Germany as a kid. lost a couple house and apartments and classmates and friends to the bombing campaign. he then moved yo the US was drafted into Korea and saw battle starting with his first day in country, Getting shot at and motor attacks and ultimately lost his assistant gunner. (my dad mostly was a machine gunner) Came home got married and had kids. With no particular obvious effects. then one day in the 1990s many decades after WW2 my dad is sitting outside at his place up on a river sleeping on his hammock under some trees. As various powerboats and water craft go past on the river and the kids next door are out playing and motor bikes go past on the road. it was a holiday weekend iirc.. Meanwhile the local county airport had a small airshow that had a B-17 and a number of WW2 craft powered by engines very similar to those of the B-17. At one point a flight of about 12-16 aircraft fly over the house. They are loud nut mi more then the motor boats are yet my dad wakes up from a sound sleep and basically levitates out if the hammock landing on the ground and while still half asleep crawls under the hammock.
Why? because this was the first time in decades that he had heard many of these engine all flying together and the droning they make when flown in mass is very distinctive and it caused a sort of flashback to the bombing raids when hundreds of B-17 s (or whatever) would fly overhead and the distinctive drone of the engines would fill the air before the bombs started falling, This droning noise while he was asleep triggered his “hind brain” or whatever into a form of fight over flight mode before he was awake enough for his conscious mind to take over and realize he was safe.
My point with this is that even people that don't seam to have PTSD in any obvious ways may very well find out that years and years latter they were in fact effected. And this is in. my opinion the most likely change we would get that has the potential to change. The entertainers will be the most obvious. When singers and song writers such as Freddie Mercury live longer we will see things we didn't get iotl. But to be honest a few extra somgs or whatever while more visable wont trully have much effect on the history of the world. But a whole generation that is not traumatized by the stay safe message and the general curtailing of the so called sexual revolution will probably result in a noticeably different culture will have a pretty large effect on society as a whole. Look at the difference in attitudes of the baby boomers vs the pre birthcontrol generations, Then look how that was all reversed (well a lot not all) in very short order.
So the phsycological effect of no Aids/HIV is probably its largest change when take as a whole. even thow it is not vety obvious and is more individualistic.
While No HIV is an interesting topic and will effect millions and millions to one degree or another it is a topic that is hard to diuscuss as it dioes mot have any obvious logical and “big” changes. Like we would see in a what if No Stalin pod.
That is the problem with so many if these less explored PODs.
But the problem with that argument to keep it on topic is that the psychological effects ARE part of that. For those of us just coming if age as Aids/HIV hit its peak were mostly affected by it mentally not physically. I grew up in the Midwest in well to do conservative suburb. And we had MULTIPLE assemblies and classes and posters and speakers and everything else you can think of talking aboyut hao dangerous Aid/HIV was and how to stay safe (basically ”dont do that”) and this radically changed my generations outlook on sex vs my older siblings that grew up 7-17 years earlier ands came if age imn the 70s before the Aids/HIV crisis,
From the point of view of more famous folks and such the big difference is that a lot of entertainers will live linger and they may produce a few more movies or songs or whatever, But that is hard to predict as who knows how long those entertainers would stay relevant.
So msot of the. effect is psychological. This brings up the question of HOW MUCH it effected folks. and i am sure it ran the spectrum from not at all to never had sex. and all points uin between.
So this did have an effect on a whole generation of relationships and views about sex.
This is also basically a PTSD kind if thing. As we are now well past that point and yet we still live with the reproductions. But PTSD is a strange thing. it effects everyone differently, and it can range from hardly any at all to extreme levels. And we really dont understand why it effects those it does the way it dose. And it can be hidden for years and years.
My dad grew up in Germany as a kid. lost a couple house and apartments and classmates and friends to the bombing campaign. he then moved yo the US was drafted into Korea and saw battle starting with his first day in country, Getting shot at and motor attacks and ultimately lost his assistant gunner. (my dad mostly was a machine gunner) Came home got married and had kids. With no particular obvious effects. then one day in the 1990s many decades after WW2 my dad is sitting outside at his place up on a river sleeping on his hammock under some trees. As various powerboats and water craft go past on the river and the kids next door are out playing and motor bikes go past on the road. it was a holiday weekend iirc.. Meanwhile the local county airport had a small airshow that had a B-17 and a number of WW2 craft powered by engines very similar to those of the B-17. At one point a flight of about 12-16 aircraft fly over the house. They are loud nut mi more then the motor boats are yet my dad wakes up from a sound sleep and basically levitates out if the hammock landing on the ground and while still half asleep crawls under the hammock.
Why? because this was the first time in decades that he had heard many of these engine all flying together and the droning they make when flown in mass is very distinctive and it caused a sort of flashback to the bombing raids when hundreds of B-17 s (or whatever) would fly overhead and the distinctive drone of the engines would fill the air before the bombs started falling, This droning noise while he was asleep triggered his “hind brain” or whatever into a form of fight over flight mode before he was awake enough for his conscious mind to take over and realize he was safe.
My point with this is that even people that don't seam to have PTSD in any obvious ways may very well find out that years and years latter they were in fact effected. And this is in. my opinion the most likely change we would get that has the potential to change. The entertainers will be the most obvious. When singers and song writers such as Freddie Mercury live longer we will see things we didn't get iotl. But to be honest a few extra somgs or whatever while more visable wont trully have much effect on the history of the world. But a whole generation that is not traumatized by the stay safe message and the general curtailing of the so called sexual revolution will probably result in a noticeably different culture will have a pretty large effect on society as a whole. Look at the difference in attitudes of the baby boomers vs the pre birthcontrol generations, Then look how that was all reversed (well a lot not all) in very short order.
So the phsycological effect of no Aids/HIV is probably its largest change when take as a whole. even thow it is not vety obvious and is more individualistic.
While No HIV is an interesting topic and will effect millions and millions to one degree or another it is a topic that is hard to diuscuss as it dioes mot have any obvious logical and “big” changes. Like we would see in a what if No Stalin pod.
That is the problem with so many if these less explored PODs.
Yes, this is kind of my approach. If a friend shares sad news, just a sincere I’m sorry and a nonverbal offer of a hug.
Last edited:
I have to agree with this. I know for a fact my older Brother was a lot less cautious about such things than I was. He had the advantage of knowing if he caught anything it could most likely be cured.
Prehapse have the congo go to a nation other then belgum (that stayed mostly out of the world wars to limit butterflys) like Spain or Portugal that would not put as much attention into the colony.
Around the same time Amarican cases were beginning to decline near the end of the cold war-
-(continued) russias were beginning to increase-
en.m.wikipedia.org
-(Continued) The former soviat union now represents the center of the europian HIV outbreak-
-(Continued) it's possible that like the United States in the late cold war that saw backlash agenst the LGBT community as a result of the rising HIV rate and subsequent normalization over the decades that eastern Europe which saw thier HIV crisis begin as Amaricas was winding down reach the same conclusion or use the same talking points inherited from the amarican aids crisis which may have been a contributing factor in the slow social progress has seen in thier relationship with substance abuse and the LGBT community (on top of the LGBT discrimination was also a intensification of the war on drugs due to it overlaping with the HIV crisis with needle transmission). You can see even today that as HIV rates have fallen globaly that eastern Europe persists as a crisis center
So to the main point of the thread it's possible without HIV that eastern Europe exiting cold war may make more progress on social issues like the west did in the decades that followed aids crisis with the LGBT community and possibly with controled medical/ recreational substances.
-(continued) russias were beginning to increase-
HIV/AIDS in Russia - Wikipedia
-(Continued) it's possible that like the United States in the late cold war that saw backlash agenst the LGBT community as a result of the rising HIV rate and subsequent normalization over the decades that eastern Europe which saw thier HIV crisis begin as Amaricas was winding down reach the same conclusion or use the same talking points inherited from the amarican aids crisis which may have been a contributing factor in the slow social progress has seen in thier relationship with substance abuse and the LGBT community (on top of the LGBT discrimination was also a intensification of the war on drugs due to it overlaping with the HIV crisis with needle transmission). You can see even today that as HIV rates have fallen globaly that eastern Europe persists as a crisis center
Last edited:
We got the Grim Reaper ad.
Brutal, but bloody effective.
Grim Reaper (advertisement) - Wikipedia
Its really hard to make herpes more widespread than it already is considering that 60% of the US population (and most developed countries) has HSV-1 and 20% has HSV-2.
Odds are that you have herpes (most get it from their parents) and don't even know about it since most people are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms that are temporary.
Risk is with the diseases whose vector is primarily sexual which herpes is not.
Last edited:
And however unpleasant it is ( a friend told me it was very unpleasant) herpes is a periodic discomfort rather than the guaranteed (and unpleasant) death sentence that AIDS was in the late 80s, and the lifelong inconvenience it is now.