Why no, no PH TL?

[elkarlo]

I would LOVE to read a TL that had the Japanese simply declare war on Dec 7th 1941, and simply going to war after that. Having the US navy sorte out into the Western Pacific to take on the Imperial Japanese fleet.
Some epic early carrier battles, and of course we'd see a lot of BBs action=D

Anyhow, couldn't find any.

 

[trekchu]

Because that would a) be a boring Ameri-wank even earlier than OTL and b) it might mean Red Europe and no one wants that.

 

[The Red]

Pacific centric TL's are quite rare compared to the mass of TL's focusing on Europe so a lot of PoD's can't have been explored.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Aside from the decision to use the A-bomb, the Pacific's not that popular for AH because it was such a lopsided conflict that there's not really many plausible ways to change the final outcome. Most people don't like to do a TL where things are significantly different from OTL, but the Pacific War really doesn't give many opportunities for the big changes.

 

[TheLoneAmigo]

I would LOVE to read a TL that had the Japanese simply declare war on Dec 7th 1941, and simply going to war after that. Having the US navy sorte out into the Western Pacific to take on the Imperial Japanese fleet.
Some epic early carrier battles, and of course we'd see a lot of BBs action=D

Anyhow, couldn't find any.

Write it yourself then.

 

[elkarlo]

Write it yourself then.

Wouldn't even come close to doing it justice. Don't know enough about the PT to be able to write a plausible thread=C

 

[elkarlo]

Because that would a) be a boring Ameri-wank even earlier than OTL and b) it might mean Red Europe and no one wants that.

I doubt that. There would be some cool battles for the first 6 months or so. Also the American Admirals would expect their BBs to still be basically unsinkable. Which could lead to some Price of Wales like sits.

 

[Grey Wolf]

I would LOVE to read a TL that had the Japanese simply declare war on Dec 7th 1941, and simply going to war after that. Having the US navy sorte out into the Western Pacific to take on the Imperial Japanese fleet.
Some epic early carrier battles, and of course we'd see a lot of BBs action=D

Anyhow, couldn't find any.

Having the US fleet sortie would probably have been better for the Japanese in some ways, I recall from other discussions, but I'm not enough of an expert in this area to remember the discussion!

It would be quite cool, like an upgraded version of "The Great Pacific War" by Hector C Bywater
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Pacific-War-Hector-Bywater/dp/0312063644

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[elkarlo]

Having the US fleet sortie would probably have been better for the Japanese in some ways, I recall from other discussions, but I'm not enough of an expert in this area to remember the discussion!

It would be quite cool, like an upgraded version of "The Great Pacific War" by Hector C Bywater
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Pacific-War-Hector-Bywater/dp/0312063644

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Oh it would def be better. The US at that time had a lot of equipment that was behind the Japanese, especially carrier based planes. That could have led to a good deal US carriers being sunk out at sea.


Nice find, book wise. That guy was obviously brilliant and serious nderstood the situation, better than most people.

I wanted to show this as well. http://www.amazon.com/Coming-War-Ja...6770/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304509402&sr=8-1

Sometimes people are wrong too.

 

[phx1138]

The trouble with PTO TLs are, as said, it's already an Ameriwank, & it's damn hard to keep Japan from being stupid. If Kimmel had sortied, you might end up with Nimitz forced to rely on his subs even more, which is (you guessed it) worse for Japan. It does likely mean the Bomb doesn't get dropped on Japan, which might encourage somebody to drop it on Berlin or someplace when the Sovs get frisky in the '50s. (They didn't have the Bomb phobia we do.)

So what about if Nimitz doesn't get the job? Or MacArthur says, "I'm staying."? Or MacArthur is killed by a sniper before he leaves the P.i.? (Hint: any TL where MacArthur is killed by a stray asteroid or falling gargoyle is probably mine.)

It's possible for Japan to make better calls at places, but they're few & far between, especially after the first 6mo. Not attacking Midway is one. Shutting the Panama Canal early is another. Mining the Golden Gate Strait & keeping it shut would be a good one, seeing how much the Sub Force relied on it. Mining & shutting Makalapa Channel at Pearl is a no-brainer IDK why IJN's subs never did.

A couple of less likely possibilities: Japan captures the intel outfit at Cast (Cavite, P.I., in the tunnels of Corregidor when they get there), or captures an intel officer who knows the IJN operational code (U.S. ID JN-25) has been broken (or maybe papers showing it). Or just that the maru code has been broken, which hinders USN subs while Hypo & OP-20G try to break it again. (Best if this is after about Sept '42.) Might help also if you can avoid Lockwood becoming COMSUBPAC; if that bastard Christie gets it, the Mark 6/Mark 14 problems might not get fixed before the war ends...

Keep in mind in a "shorter PacWar" TL. It means no Korean War, no ChiCom victory, & no Vietnam (or dramatically less chance). The first two, because the Sovs don't invade Manchuria or get awarded an occupation zone. Vietnam, there's at least a chance of FDR telling de Gaulle to get on his bike when he proposes keeping Vietnam postwar, or for Truman to be in the job long enough to recognize France needs the U.S. as much as the reverse, & put pressure on to decolonize. Might even offer the UK Commonwealth model, & make Vietnam & Algeria full partners. (This is my fave Francewank of the period.) This does, of course, wipe out the career of Oliver Stone & turns "Forest Gump" into "Gomer Pyle, the Movie".