When did Jacobitism die for good?

Vingilótë

Vingilótë

By the end of the 18th century, the last Jacobite heir had for all purposes abandoned his claim to the crowns of England, Scotland, and Ireland. However, at what point before that would you say that Jacobitism was well and truly a 'dead' movement?
 

Danth

1788 with the death of the Bonnie Prince as a serious moment
1807 with the death of Henry Benedict Stuart (the last legitimate Stuart) as even a pipe dream movment
 

Bonnie Prince Charlie

Danth said:
1788 with the death of the Bonnie Prince as a serious moment
1807 with the death of Henry Benedict Stuart (the last legitimate Stuart) as even a pipe dream movment
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Really? As someone said in the other thread, the longer it took the Stuarts to seize the throne, the less likely they could ever do so. I would say the last time they really had a shot was 1745 (when my namesake tried for it in Scotland). The plan to invade in 1759 was already beyond a long shot.
 

Danth

Bonnie Prince Charlie said:
Really? As someone said in the other thread, the longer it took the Stuarts to seize the throne, the less likely they could ever do so. I would say the last time they really had a shot was 1745 (when my namesake tried for it in Scotland). The plan to invade in 1759 was already beyond a long shot.
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1745 being the last realistic chance yes. But say some unforeseen disaster struck then the Bonnie Prince was still alive to make another shot.
 

Wallflower

Michael Lafosse may not be a real heir to the British thrones, but there are indeed descendants of Charles Edward Stuart living today through his illegitimate daughter Charlotte.

As I can remember, her present day descendants are somewhat related to the Polish nobility and make no claim to the British thrones.
 

ggarner57

On the fields of Culloden 246 years ago yesterday. If only Charlie wasn't such an idiot militarily, if only they kept marching towards London, if only Lord George Murray had more control... Well honestly I don't know if the '45 could've really been pulled off.
 

UncleDynamite

1745 as the last time the Jacobites had any shot at all of reclaiming the throne.

1788 as the death of Jacobitism as an idea. Once Bonnie Prince Charlie was dead, the new heir had no connection to Britain, having been born and raised in Rome.

There are Jacobites today, but AFAIK, most of them are more about celebrating Highland culture than seriously advocating for the descendants of BPC to regain the throne. IIRC there was an article about modern-day Jacobites and the leader of the largest group said "There's no point in toasting 'To the King Over the Water'. The King Over the Water is in a mausoleum in Rome."
 

The Red

UncleDynamite said:
1788 as the death of Jacobitism as an idea. Once Bonnie Prince Charlie was dead, the new heir had no connection to Britain, having been born and raised in Rome.
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I don't see how the Italian Coward was any better, if he'd had any connection to the Clans he had strung along he would have died on Culloden with them.
 

Bonnie Prince Charlie

UncleDynamite said:
There are Jacobites today, but AFAIK, most of them are more about celebrating Highland culture than seriously advocating for the descendants of BPC to regain the throne. IIRC there was an article about modern-day Jacobites and the leader of the largest group said "There's no point in toasting 'To the King Over the Water'. The King Over the Water is in a mausoleum in Rome."
Click to expand...

The association between Jacobitism and Highland cultural appreciation has been around for a long time. My favorite 'Stuarts' were the so-called 'Sobieski Stuart' brothers, who, in the mid-nineteenth century, gained some social cachet by claiming the Bonnie Prince was their grandfather. They published a book on Scottish tartans, for which they apparently just made things up (they were actually English and didn't know anything about tartans.)
 

Emperor Constantine

I'd argue that Jacobitism as a potential movement died in 1766, with James III. After his death the Pope refused to recognize Charles III as the legitimate King of England, Scotland and Ireland. Then there were a few hangers on, mainly descendents of Jaocbites, and that lasted until Henry IX's death in 1807.
 

David T

From an old *Encyclopedia Britannica* article (the reference to "the World War" shows its approximate date):

"the suppression of the revolt of 1715 and the total failure of "the '45" marked its end as a serious political force. But as a sentiment it remained for some time longer. In 1750, during a strike of coal workers at Elswick, James III. was proclaimed king; and in Manchester a Jacobite rendezvous known as "John Shaw's Club" lasted from 1735 to 1892; North Wales was another Jacobite centre. Jacobite traditions also lingered among the great families of the Scottish Highlands. Until the accession of King Edward VII. finger-bowls were not placed upon the royal dinner table, because in former times those who secretly sympathized with the Jacobites were in the habit of drinking to the king *over the water.* Sentimental Jacobitism was practically extinguished during the World War by the fact that the "rightful king" was Prince Rupert (Rupprecht) of Bavaria."

http://gluedideas.com/Encyclopedia-Britannica-Volume-12-Part-2-Hydrozoa-Jeremy/Jacobites.html
 

Major Major

Emperor Constantine

Wallflower said:
Michael Lafosse may not be a real heir to the British thrones, but there are indeed descendants of Charles Edward Stuart living today through his illegitimate daughter Charlotte.

As I can remember, her present day descendants are somewhat related to the Polish nobility and make no claim to the British thrones.
Click to expand...

Considering they descend from the bastards of a bastard, I can't imagine why they would make any claims.
 
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