Wheeled creatures on Earth?

Derek Jackson

I do not know if this is ASB or just a very old POD but what if some kind of creatures, or possibly symbiotically related pairs or groups of creatures, which used something like a wheel.

Would that cause humans to develop more quickly than in OTL?
 

Tyr

Don't armadillos do this?
Or some creature like them anyway....Maybe its some sort of lizard. Some animals definatly wheel along.
 

Keenir

Banned
Derek Jackson said:
I do not know if this is ASB or just a very old POD but what if some kind of creatures, or possibly symbiotically related pairs or groups of creatures, which used something like a wheel.

Would that cause humans to develop more quickly than in OTL?
Click to expand...

maybe....given that most of the wheeled organisms of OTL with wheels are microbes.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Have you read the His Dark Materials trilogy, Derek? Because in one of the many alternate Earths visited during the cause of the story, a wheeled species called the Mulefa are introduced.
 

Mark

Microbes are not animals. I know some single-celled organisms have a flagellum that rotates, but that is not a wheel even though it is a rotary structure. I would like to know if any actually have wheels.

The problems with wheeled animals (multicellular organisms) are 1) how does the wheel rotate and 2) how does the wheel grow, both using biological materials. Legs can grow in length and/or circumference. Legs are also very good on uneven ground.
 

Keenir

Banned
Mark said:
Microbes are not animals. I know some single-celled organisms have a flagellum that rotates, but that is not a wheel even though it is a rotary structure. I would like to know if any actually have wheels.
Click to expand...

given that they live inside termites, I doubt they photosynthesize.

and then there's E.coli too.


the thread asked for "wheeled creatures" and specified neither size nor complexity nor kingdom/phylum affinities.
 

HueyLong

Banned
He obviously meant on the macrobiological scale, for it to influence primitive humans. IIRC, primitive humans had no microscopes.
 

Rockingham

Banned
The problem is, how could such a structure develop over time via evolution?
It's just to complicated. Then again they say the same thing about the eye....

Presumably, it is impossible with the wheeled structure as we know it. It would need to be radically different, possibly shaped more like a couple of rotating tubes....
 

eschaton

The central problem with evolving a wheel is that wheels pretty much need to be totally separate elements from the animal at large.

Think about how a wheel rotates. If it just spun and spun, there could be no connections to the animal at large. No nerves, no blood supply, nothing, because such connections would get twisted off after only one full rotation.

Are there any workarounds? Yes.

1. Wheels are dead and/or inorganic. The animal in question places a wheel stub into a muscular orifice which then rotates the wheel - and replaces them as they wear out. It's hard to imagine how this could evolve. Maybe an animal, for some reason, begins running on spherical seed pods like someone balancing on a ball?

2. Wheels evolve as a symbiosis between two animals. this is a little bit easier. Let's say a limbless animal (snail, snake, etc) develops a relationship with another animal which already has a habit of rolling quickly downhill to pursue or avoid prey. At first, the snake-thing just rides along the top, surfing along with them, but with time it can better grip the other animals without slowing down the speed of rotation. Give it a few million years and you might have effective "roller" wheels. How optimized the wheels could develop probably depends upon degenerate the wheel-symbionts could get. I can't see vertebrates - even as symbionts - having their mid-body developing quite into an axle.
 

Michael B

In James White's Major Operation there are creatures that are wheels; they evolved in whirlpools so have to continuously rotate.
 
NHBL

NHBL

Practicalities...

I see one difficulty with wheeled creatures, and it's not a comment on the ASB or non-ASB nature:

Wheels need relatively smooth and firm terain in proportion to the size of the wheel. Note that off road vehicles are still limited in where they can go comapred to critters with legs.

Add on the gauranteed necessity of getting un-stuck at some point, and wheels for critters strike me as impractical.
 

Mark

Keenir said:
given that they live inside termites, I doubt they photosynthesize.

and then there's E.coli too.


the thread asked for "wheeled creatures" and specified neither size nor complexity nor kingdom/phylum affinities.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how living in termites and/or not photosynthesizing goes against my statements. I agree that there are organisms with a flagellum that rotates, but this structure is similar to holding a piece of rope in your hand and rotating your arm. It is a rotary strutuce, but not a wheel.

NHBL phrased one of my other objections very well.
 

Keenir

Banned
Mark said:
I'm not sure how living in termites and/or not photosynthesizing goes against my statements. I agree that there are organisms with a flagellum that rotates, but this structure is similar to holding a piece of rope in your hand and rotating your arm. It is a rotary strutuce, but not a wheel.
Click to expand...

in some species, that is true.

in other species, however, the object which the flagellum attached to, is itself a true and proper wheel.
 
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