Treaty of Frankfurt is not the Versaille dictat. France could pay. Germany could not and that was intention.
Not that there where any troops left to occupy Germany anyway. So the whole argument is rather moot.
What would it take it to stop WWII?
- Thread starter Sasalele
- Start date
Not that there where any troops left to occupy Germany anyway. So the whole argument is rather moot.
Actually the casualties were Adolph Hitler, Hermann Goering and Hirohito, the Emperor Showa.
Edward Teller as a student started to meet and befriend many top Physicists who where working with radiation and theory regarding it. His dissertation was on the Hydrogen atom and chemical engineering. He was in the US by 1935 and had been in Britain prior to that. Say during his doodling he gets 2/3s or more of the equation, enough that it could be finished and meet with Churchill who asked the US, FDR, to help build it. Start work in 1/36 by 1/40 you have Atom bombs. It won't completely stop the war in Europe but it would end without the US getting very involved and definitely not be a WW. Japan may get sense but if they don't the US vJapan is not a WW. We might end up with several smaller wars instead of 1 large one.
Y not make versailles break up germany to its old kingdoms (Prussia, Hannover, Saxony, Bavaria, etc.)???
That would have been a solution but neither the UK not the USA wanted it.
Just have Hitler die whenever you want before march or septembre 1939 and there will be no WWII. The sonner would be the better : he is killed during his failed coup in 1923 or sentenced to death and executed alter this failed coup.
Just have Hitler die whenever you want before march or septembre 1939 and there will be no WWII. The sonner would be the better : he is killed during his failed coup in 1923 or sentenced to death and executed alter this failed coup.
Well thats why it failed - I was talking about a Entente 'presence' across all of Germany.
It failed because the victors didnt had the power nor the will to extract resources.
Hence the whole occupation and turn the clock back to pre unified Germany always baffles me. There is no power to do.
How does this happen?
I don't really know to be honest
Im guessing the same way that the Allies did it in post WW2 Germany and Japan but of course in both cases those nations had been crushed
So I guess its Hitler dies in a tragic and baffling paint brush accident
I`m not going to try to claim the Showa Emperor was blameless during the war years, but I really don`t see how his death would prevent anything. This is doubly true if it means Prince Chichibu is enthroned instead, as he was far more in tune with far-right views than the Showa Emperor ever was.
In my view, you`d be way better off with a PoD that removes, say, Ikki Kita or Baron Sadao Araki.
First off, thanks for posting this - it's an interesting idea and more original than the countless threads on what if Hitler wins.
I think this scenario comes up against a deep problem - to what extent Hitler was the driving force of WW2, or whether it would have happened anyway because of the underlying cultural and political forces at work in the 1920s and 1930s.
Personally, I tend to take the view that Hitler was more an expression of the spirit of the times, and thus even removing him as an individual would not necessarily mean everything is fine. The Dolchstosse legende was not created by Hitler and would still have existed anyway. The rise of the socialists and fear of Communism would have existed anyway. The economic crash of 1929 would have happened anyway. Hyper inflation would have happened anyway. The rise of anti-semitism was happening anyway and had been going on for years. Even Hitler's ideas about eugenics and living space were all current scientific thinking at the time.
I believe removing Hitler would not solve the problems, and I think it's quite possible that Germany ends up at war anyway.
Deleted member 1487
First off, thanks for posting this - it's an interesting idea and more original than the countless threads on what if Hitler wins.
I think this scenario comes up against a deep problem - to what extent Hitler was the driving force of WW2, or whether it would have happened anyway because of the underlying cultural and political forces at work in the 1920s and 1930s.
Personally, I tend to take the view that Hitler was more an expression of the spirit of the times, and thus even removing him as an individual would not necessarily mean everything is fine. The Dolchstosse legende was not created by Hitler and would still have existed anyway. The rise of the socialists and fear of Communism would have existed anyway. The economic crash of 1929 would have happened anyway. Hyper inflation would have happened anyway. The rise of anti-semitism was happening anyway and had been going on for years. Even Hitler's ideas about eugenics and living space were all current scientific thinking at the time.
I believe removing Hitler would not solve the problems, and I think it's quite possible that Germany ends up at war anyway.
Ends up at war sure, but not necessarily in the context of a world war. It might just be regional conflicts in the context of a dysfunctional international system. I mean Italy is still going to invade Ethopia and Japan China.
You know what a red hering is? Well the thing is that the contribution of the Allied after ww2 in forming these states is rather moot. Thats why I asked. The Marshall plan was good and important, but after ww1? Nah, cant see that happen.If it didnt happen in the first place its rather nonsensical to ask about the possibilities after ww1. And to be honest the Entente didnt gave a flying fuck what kind of government Germany had. As long as it was not communist and kept the money flowing. There is no motivation post ww1 to keep Germany stable. The situation is much different after ww2.
My guess is that we rather should look on the economy. Without the Great Depression you hardly get enough Germans to vote for lunatics from the fringe.
What worked after WW2 would definitely not work after WW1. Too many factors would be different and would not work in favour for an Experiment called "Long-term complete occupation of Germany". In the worst case, you will have terrorism and low-key Guerilla warfare. For a glimpse of the Scenario, study the occupation of the Ruhr.
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Even with a surviving Weimar Republic, it is quite probable that there would be a war against Poland in the late 1930s. In the 1930s, France and Britain would also give more leeway to a democratic Germany, and it wouldn't squander its credit by breaking Agreement after Agreement or by rushing things. It might not even press the issues about the Germans in the CSR as far as Hitler, but settle with autonomy.
A unification with Austria is in the cards, perhaps as a way to remove the Austro-Fascist Regime (perhaps when Austria's Guardian angel Mussolini is rather isolated after Abessinia).
The war against Poland would be completely different from Hitler's Invasion. Diplomatically prepared so that Poland wouldn't be "guarded" by the guarantee. A Swift attack into the corridor and against against some key objectives halfway to Warsaw; preparing to break the Polish counterattakc, then waiting for international Mediation which gives Danzig and a good deal of the lost territory back to Germany and probably reverse the corridor Situation by leaving Gdingen as an enclave with Poland.
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Even with a surviving Weimar Republic, it is quite probable that there would be a war against Poland in the late 1930s. In the 1930s, France and Britain would also give more leeway to a democratic Germany, and it wouldn't squander its credit by breaking Agreement after Agreement or by rushing things. It might not even press the issues about the Germans in the CSR as far as Hitler, but settle with autonomy.
A unification with Austria is in the cards, perhaps as a way to remove the Austro-Fascist Regime (perhaps when Austria's Guardian angel Mussolini is rather isolated after Abessinia).
The war against Poland would be completely different from Hitler's Invasion. Diplomatically prepared so that Poland wouldn't be "guarded" by the guarantee. A Swift attack into the corridor and against against some key objectives halfway to Warsaw; preparing to break the Polish counterattakc, then waiting for international Mediation which gives Danzig and a good deal of the lost territory back to Germany and probably reverse the corridor Situation by leaving Gdingen as an enclave with Poland.
IIRC
Holding Out for a Hero: Gustav Stresemann Survives (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page)
may be what you want.
Holding Out for a Hero: Gustav Stresemann Survives (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... Last Page)
may be what you want.
That seems a tad simplistic and the UK was beatable. Beating the SU into a Brest Litovsk treaty is possible too, but there's no way the OTL Nazis would consider it until it was too late. Pearl Harbor was complete madness though.
France and Britain invading Germany after the occupation of the Rhineland would do it. That or them forming an alliance with Stalin.
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I agree with offing Hitler to stop the war IOTL. No guarantee another world war may develop though instead.
Bavarian Raven
Banned
Have the allies be reasonable, and not blame germany for a war everyone was itching for... a fair treaty at the end of ww1 coulda done wonders for the world for the next several decades...