As you might know, Toyotomi Hideyoshi attempted to invade Korea and China in the late sixteenth century, but was eventually repulsed after a protracted military campaign. I'm not asking whether it's possible if he could have won, but what he might have done if he did- what were his plans, or how would he organize his conquered lands? Would he have declared himself Emperor of China, and how would this gel with Japanese daimyo? Would such a claim be considered an insult to the Emperor of Japan- would he be a tributary to Hideyoshi or would the office of Emperor of Japan be abolished entirely as a threat to his authority? Additionally, where would he have moved his court, and how thoroughly would he be assimilated to Chinese-style governance?
What Would Hideyoshi Do if He Conquered China?
- Thread starter Tripledot
- Start date
He'd Probably crown himself Emperor, give his loyalists titles adn move them over to China. He'd probably start a new ruling dynasty for China and largely abandon Japan.
Depending on how he does consolidating power in China, he maybe would try to also hold on to Korea, but he would not likely to be as foolish as to try and hold on to Japan, letting the remaining clans fight over the Power Void left behind. While he was sitting in Bejing, enjoying being emperor.
Depending on how he does consolidating power in China, he maybe would try to also hold on to Korea, but he would not likely to be as foolish as to try and hold on to Japan, letting the remaining clans fight over the Power Void left behind. While he was sitting in Bejing, enjoying being emperor.
Apparently his plan was to conquer India after conquering China, although I'm not sure how soon he'd get round to it.
I knew about his interest in Korea, but, really conquering China and then India? Damn, that guy had some balls, especially coming from such lowly origins in comparison to his rivals (like Nobunaga and Ieyasu).
If he did became Emperor of China (let's forget India for a bit), this puts some gargantuan butterflies regarding the succession crisis, I suppose, with Ieyasu and Hideyoshi's son fighting in Chinese battlefields.
Lucius Verus
Banned
Like Caliph said Hildeyoshi and his descendants would become Chinese or get thrown out. The interesting part is what happens with the next dynasty? Would it consider Korea and Japan to be Chinese provinces, would they part ways, or something akin to the Mongolians to be destroyed if possible?
I'm afraid, as in the case of all former "conquerors" of China, it would be China that would in the end conqueror Hideoyoshi.
There are just not enough Japanese people, especially in the 16th century, to transfer cultural dominance from Japan to the mainland.
so in the case the Jimmu dynasty could establish control (with the help of the Shogun) of China, said dynasty would eventually take on a traditional Chinese character and probably lose all connection to Yamato history.
There are just not enough Japanese people, especially in the 16th century, to transfer cultural dominance from Japan to the mainland.
so in the case the Jimmu dynasty could establish control (with the help of the Shogun) of China, said dynasty would eventually take on a traditional Chinese character and probably lose all connection to Yamato history.
What the hell? That's literally insane. I guess he could conquer lands in the "Indosphere", but not India proper.
There are some documents about his plans. He seemingly intended to make the Japanese Emperor the ruler of China as an overlord of a bunch of feudal daimyos each ruling a bit of China. His further plans appear to have included conquest of India and even Persia, but I don't think he had any clear idea about the future governance of those places.
Of course, even getting the Japanese past Korea is hardly plausible at all in any event. In a stretch, I can admit they might implausibly conquer China (a feat vastly surpassing Alexander I think) but I can't imagine them doing much more, realistically.
It'd be something akin to the Manchu, except with Japanese people instead of Manchurians (yes, they'd have to take over at least part of Manchuria too, for the whole thing to be even remotely viable). Probably very unstable and unlikely to last.
Of course, even getting the Japanese past Korea is hardly plausible at all in any event. In a stretch, I can admit they might implausibly conquer China (a feat vastly surpassing Alexander I think) but I can't imagine them doing much more, realistically.
It'd be something akin to the Manchu, except with Japanese people instead of Manchurians (yes, they'd have to take over at least part of Manchuria too, for the whole thing to be even remotely viable). Probably very unstable and unlikely to last.
I think that if the Japanese succeed in conquer China it would be quite different from the Manchurian conquest. Japan was at this time already a very densely populated country. So I imagine that we won't see Chinese emigration to Japan, I could see Japanese emigration the other way. But I think the Japanese emigrating to China will adopt the local dialects of the areas they settle, growing into only being distinct by social class. The one exception I could see Korea and Taiwan end up being integrated into Japanese culture, Korea because it's so close to Japan and Taiwan because of it lack of population. The question are whether the Manchurian model of forcing their symbols and social structure down over the Chinese.
IIRC, the plan was to have a ruling Japanese feudal class over China. I agree they would Sinicize rapidly in all likelihood. Taiwan wasn't part of China at the time. It is likely to be conquered in this context anyway.
The question are in what manner the Japanese would sinicise. The Manchurian may have adopted the Chinese language, but they stayed social distinct and forced aspects of their culture down over the Chinese. The Japanese with their much more vast population, will likely have much greater effect on the Chinese, especially if they export their surplus population to China and these will lord it over the local Chinese. I could see the Japanese settlers (no matter their original social class) fundamental growing into some kind of Samurai class ruling the Chinese in the same manner as they did in Japan. The result could simply be that the Japanese remake China into a Chinese speaking giant version of Japan.
Yep
I dunno, although from the accounts I've read of the Imjin War he does seem a little crazy. Maybe he had some sort of illness causing his mental faculties to decline? Or else he'd gotten so used to winning he ended up succumbing to megalomania?
They don't need to, we will likely see a first wave when its conquered, and from that point, Japan will simply become a source of soldiers, which lack loyalty to the local population in China.