What would Byzantine be called if restored?

Hydraphantom

Hydraphantom

Saw the quote from worst 19th century cliches.
"Greece will go from non-existent in 1800 to becoming the Byzantine Empire by 1900, and the Byzantine Empire will of course be one of the Great Powers of Europe. It will also not be called be Greece, but literally called the Byzantine Empire and style itself as the successor to the original Byzantium, and Europe willtreat this as a normal course of affairs."

So I've been wondering, since the name Byzantine itself is an outsider construct, what would they call themselves if Byzantine were restored?
 
Carp

Carp

Hydraphantom said:
If they call themselves Rhomania, what would the actual Romanians be called? Vlachs or Darcian perhaps?
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Romanians, of course. It is an immutable rule of the universe that in all possible timelines the Greeks must have a naming dispute with a neighbor. ;)
 

Vasilas

It is not sufficient to merely have Greece bite off larger chunks of the sick man, it is also necessary to ensure that the Greek state looks less back towards Classical Greece and more towards Byzantium. This would not be particularly easy-many Greek independence movement leaders OTL wanted nothing to do with Byzantium, and neither did the Western powers-who preferred to help the heirs of Socrates and Alexander over the successors of the Palaiologoi. The one power who had interest in the Byzantine past was Russia, which was because of their own Imperial pretensions. I cannot see them being too happy to be "usurped" by a recent pygmy in the Balkans.

However this is not quite impossible, perhaps if the sick man is allowed to die fast and some chimeraic Greek led successor state is put in its place (at least in the Aegean and Pontus regions) to secure balance of powers over the straits-led by Phanariotes and similar prominent elements from the millet-i-Rum. In that case, they will likely be called the same name as ever- Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων (Basileia ton Romaion-"Empire of the Romans") or maybe Πολιτεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων if it is somewhat miraculously a republic (we moved into ultra rare event territory a while ago). In popular speech it would likely call itself Romania (just as Greeks dont call their OTL country Hellenic Republic, but Hellas). It is of course a bigger question as to whether anyone else will be using any Roman derived term to refer to Greeks (evidence from 800 AD onwards suggest no when it comes to the West). The Danubian Principalities may not be big fans, at any rate.
 

Arkenfolm

Hydraphantom said:
Saw the quote from worst 19th century cliches.
"Greece will go from non-existent in 1800 to becoming the Byzantine Empire by 1900, and the Byzantine Empire will of course be one of the Great Powers of Europe. It will also not be called be Greece, but literally called the Byzantine Empire and style itself as the successor to the original Byzantium, and Europe willtreat this as a normal course of affairs."

So I've been wondering, since the name Byzantine itself is an outsider construct, what would they call themselves if Byzantine were restored?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the shoutout.

Since Rhomaion is not an English word, and Rhomania just looks weird, the only answer is Romania.

The other Romanians (who are real Romans and not Greeks pretending to be Romans) can call themselves Rumanians like they used to before WWII.

Still, was this given any thought by the Megali Idea proponents and other Greek nationalists in the time period? It just wouldn't do well for a backwater, relatively small country in Europe, even one that's been punching above it's weight, to suddenly say "we're the Roman Empire" or even "we're the Byzantine Empire". I could just imagine the rest of Europe laughing complete with contemporary political cartoons utterly mocking "Rome". Especially Italy.
 

betrayor

Even in modern greece though it is not used as much another word we use for greeks is romios( singular) or romioi ( plural)
Which is clearly derived from romans.
 

JackLumber

metalinvader665 said:
Thanks for the shoutout.

Since Rhomaion is not an English word, and Rhomania just looks weird, the only answer is Romania.

The other Romanians (who are real Romans and not Greeks pretending to be Romans) can call themselves Rumanians like they used to before WWII.

Still, was this given any thought by the Megali Idea proponents and other Greek nationalists in the time period? It just wouldn't do well for a backwater, relatively small country in Europe, even one that's been punching above it's weight, to suddenly say "we're the Roman Empire" or even "we're the Byzantine Empire". I could just imagine the rest of Europe laughing complete with contemporary political cartoons utterly mocking "Rome". Especially Italy.
Click to expand...
No one was pretending to be Roman, they were Roman who were also Greeks.
Being Roman wasn't limited to being a speaker of Latin.
 
Indicus

Indicus

metalinvader665 said:
Still, was this given any thought by the Megali Idea proponents and other Greek nationalists in the time period? It just wouldn't do well for a backwater, relatively small country in Europe, even one that's been punching above it's weight, to suddenly say "we're the Roman Empire" or even "we're the Byzantine Empire". I could just imagine the rest of Europe laughing complete with contemporary political cartoons utterly mocking "Rome". Especially Italy.
Click to expand...

It should be noted that in the late eighteenth century, prior to the rise of Revolutionary France and its love of Roman culture, Italy saw an Etruscan craze. Perhaps this Etruscan craze can define the shape of Italian romanticism.
 

cmakk1012

It's more likely Russia becomes Rome. Wait, just hear me out: ridiculous Russia wank lets them take Constantinople and Greece. In a ridiculously pompous ceremony they crown the Tsar as the Emperor of the Romans and declare Russia the honorary Roman Empire.
 
Umbric Man

Umbric Man

I too see it as calling itself the Roman Empire/Romania and the rest of the world calling it Greece/Rhomania, with a capital in Constantinople. However, I also see it stressing its Greekness a LOT more, both classical and how the Byzantine Empire began to do so in the late middle ages. Essentially, GREECE! ... BUT CHRISTIAN!.... ACTUAL CHRISTIAN! ( :p ) -and weave it all together.

I'm assuming the Megali Idea somehow worked out with more or less the OTL Greek boundaries but including the OTL borders of the Straits Zone, Ionia Mandate, North Epirus, all Cyprus, and maybe the rest of the southwest Turkish coast to include the ancient Doris region. Aren't those all the areas where the majority of ethnic Greeks outside the Kingdom of Greece were, pre-Population Exchange? Funny how all the Megali Idea's claims roughly corresponded to majority-Greek lands in Classical Greece excepting Sicily and South Italy.
 
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