What Would A 1970s Syd Barrett-led Pink Floyd Look Like?

[RedBeetle]

So let's say that:
A. Syd gets professional help around mid 1967/early 1968
B. He just doesn't overdo it with drugs in the first place

So still around late 1967 that our now mentally healthy Syd and Roger still hire David Gilmour as a 2nd guitarist, but not to replace Syd, but just to beef up their sound. So we still see the five man Floyd that we had for that short period of time in the sixties. What would it look like with that lineup going into the 70s?

Would they achieve stardom like they did in OTL, or would they stay a underground band? Would they keep with their jolly psychedelic pop, or would they go for a more mature sound? I mean, Syd had the instrumental chops (Interstellar Overdrive, In the Beechwoods, Rhamadan, etc) so maybe he could've fit in the sounds they had.

But most of all, what would this do to Syd?

I honestly see him quitting around 1971/1972 and Pink Floyd going down the path it did in OTL

 

[High Plains Drifter]

No, the most important Pink Floyd question is what would a retained/viable/influential Syd do to Roger Waters?

Roger Waters is A) an amazing writer of music and lyrics; and B) an amazing asshole.

Is Roger no longer the dominating creative influence of the group because he has to share with Syd?

Is Roger still the dominating creative influence but it is modified/tempered to fit/accommodate Syd's vision/style/preferences?

Is Roger less of an asshole because Syd's presence either makes him less of an asshole or forces him to control his assholeness for fear of losing influence over the band?

Does Roger leave the band in the early 70s because he can't get his vision implemented? Especially if Syd can instill some backbone in the easy going/less driven/very talented trio of Wright-Mason-Gilmour. Maybe it won't take 10 years for them to finally decide they have taken enough crap from Roger and they kick him out thanks to Syd's leadership.

 

[ralphz]

Honestly, if Syd stays, I can't see Roger staying too, not long term. He really drove the bus post-Syd. He leaves to make some classic solo albums, but they'll be a measure less iconic and successful without the rest of the Floydians.

Syd, however, would always be on the edge of instability - that's just the truth about mental illness. If and when he drops out, David Gilmour will take over as he did OTL after Roger quit/attempted to dissolve the band.

So Syd stays, we have some new classics, but no Dark Side ... and no inspiration for Wish You Were Here or The Wall, frankly.

 

[ChaosNDiscord]

Pink Floyd go the way of Procul Harum with one hit that everyone knows and a bunch of lesser known songs that are still pretty fantastic but get little radio play and are largely unknown after their late 60s/70s heyday.

 

[Taimur500]

Jazzier, more experimental, imo cooler.

 

[danmartin73]

I didn't come up with these, but they give a fairly feasible indication as to what could have happened. I can't see a healthy Syd and Roger in the band together forever.

What if Syd hadn't left Pink Floyd - part 1

What if Syd Had Never Left Pink Floyd - Part 2

 

[flippikat]

Honestly, if Syd stays, I can't see Roger staying too, not long term. He really drove the bus post-Syd. He leaves to make some classic solo albums, but they'll be a measure less iconic and successful without the rest of the Floydians.

Syd, however, would always be on the edge of instability - that's just the truth about mental illness. If and when he drops out, David Gilmour will take over as he did OTL after Roger quit/attempted to dissolve the band.

So Syd stays, we have some new classics, but no Dark Side ... and no inspiration for Wish You Were Here or The Wall, frankly.

I can see Roger staying as far as Meddle, to be fair - with "Echoes" as not just a Pink Floyd classic epic, but also serving as Roger's swansong as a Pink Floyd member.

The crunch would come when Roger presents his idea for the follow-up album - all about the pressures of life. Assuming Syd stays with Pink Floyd, if Roger walks he may take Nick Mason with him (who appears to have been closest to Roger), but Richard would probably be relieved to see Roger go. So we have Pink Floyd probably needing a new rhythm section, at least.

What's David Gilmour doing in this timeline? In OTL he was recruited to help/fill in for a floundering Syd in late 1967. If Syd remains stable, David may not have joined in 1967-8.. but may enter Syd's mind to join after Roger departs - whether thats 2nd guitar (with someone else recruited for bass), or bass, or replacing Syd on guitar with Syd moving to bass!

 

[RedBeetle]

I can see Roger staying as far as Meddle, to be fair - with "Echoes" as not just a Pink Floyd classic epic, but also serving as Roger's swansong as a Pink Floyd member.

The crunch would come when Roger presents his idea for the follow-up album - all about the pressures of life. Assuming Syd stays with Pink Floyd, if Roger walks he may take Nick Mason with him (who appears to have been closest to Roger), but Richard would probably be relieved to see Roger go. So we have Pink Floyd probably needing a new rhythm section, at least.

What's David Gilmour doing in this timeline? In OTL he was recruited to help/fill in for a floundering Syd in late 1967. If Syd remains stable, David may not have joined in 1967-8.. but may enter Syd's mind to join after Roger departs - whether thats 2nd guitar (with someone else recruited for bass), or bass, or replacing Syd on guitar with Syd moving to bass!

Well I was thinking with David that he gets hired around the same time he does (around 1968) by Syd and Roger. For the simple reason of just beefing up their live sound.

But yeah, I have some ideas for people Dave can get to replace Roger and Nick. Dave’s old friend Willie Wilson (from his old band Joker’s Wild) can come and become drummer for them, he also helped with the recording of Madcap Laughs so it could work.

Maybe they get Rick Wills on bass? Again a Joker’s Wild member.

 

[RedBeetle]

Bump

 

[Loulou]

What if Syd brought in Kevin Ayers as a bassist in case Roger leaves

 

[danmartin73]

For people to replace Roger, I’d personally suggest John Wetton. Terrific bass player, terrific singer and importantly, a great team player. And for Nick, it depends if you want to get someone who is free or poach someone from an already existing group. If you want someone free, possibly Alan White (although this means someone else would have to replace Bill Bruford - for that I’d suggest Ian Wallace as he had played a gig with them in 1968 and it would be cool just to have Ian and Bill swap positions - Ian replacing Bill in Yes and Bill replacing Ian in King Crimson). If you want to poach someone, Phil Collins could be a good suggestion, though I think Robert Wyatt could be a great option too as he was fired from Soft Machine in 1971 due to musical differences.

 

[RedBeetle]

So I’m guessing this new lineup of Pink Floyd would be:

• Syd Barrett: Vocals, guitar
• Richard Wright: Vocals, keyboards
• John Wetton: Vocals, bass
• David Gilmour: Vocals, guitar
• Robert Wyatt: Drums

I think I saw a tl like this, but what would they do around the time Robert falls out the window and gets paralyzed?

 

[danmartin73]

So I’m guessing this new lineup of Pink Floyd would be:

• Syd Barrett: Vocals, guitar
• Richard Wright: Vocals, keyboards
• John Wetton: Vocals, bass
• David Gilmour: Vocals, guitar
• Robert Wyatt: Drums

I think I saw a tl like this, but what would they do around the time Robert falls out the window and gets paralyzed?

Hmm, I feel like on 2nd thoughts (since I posted my ideas fairly late last night) that Robert wouldn't really fit into the group for multiple reasons. He would become paralysed from the waist down in 1973, and even with Syd in the group, I'm not sure how well together their styles would merge with Robert as a songwriter. After all, too many cooks spoil the broth. So I think Alan White would be a better suggestion because as a drummer he's more versatile, and also so the Bruford and Wallace swap can happen. And I presume that Dylan Howe (Steve's son) would replace him after he dies in 2007.

P.S. There could be two TL's you're referring to. One is Projection, in which the band goes on a brief hiatus but still keep him on hand drumming without feet. The other TL is the Soft Machine Rigmarole TL, here the band simply breaks up, and then reunites twice - in 1975 with Nick Mason on drums, and again in 1988 with Bill Bruford. If you don't already know, there has been a remastering of the AH TL now on blogspot - https://softmachinerigamarole.blogspot.com/.

 

[RedBeetle]

Hmm, I feel like on 2nd thoughts (since I posted my ideas fairly late last night) that Robert wouldn't really fit into the group for multiple reasons. He would become paralysed from the waist down in 1973, and even with Syd in the group, I'm not sure how well together their styles would merge with Robert as a songwriter. After all, too many cooks spoil the broth. So I think Alan White would be a better suggestion because as a drummer he's more versatile, and also so the Bruford and Wallace swap can happen. And I presume that Dylan Howe (Steve's son) would replace him after he dies in 2007.

P.S. There could be two TL's you're referring to. One is Projection, in which the band goes on a brief hiatus but still keep him on hand drumming without feet. The other TL is the Soft Machine Rigmarole TL, here the band simply breaks up, and then reunites twice - in 1975 with Nick Mason on drums, and again in 1988 with Bill Bruford. If you don't already know, there has been a remastering of the AH TL now on blogspot - https://softmachinerigamarole.blogspot.com/.

As I said earlier, I think a good drummer would be Willie Wilson, as he had been with David Gilmour in his old band Joker's Wild, and also played on both of Syd's solo albums. I honestly see David calling up Will after finding out Nick left with Roger.

EDIT: Yeah Projection is the one I was thinking of, been meaning to do a Pink Floyd tl for a while.

 

[danmartin73]

That makes sense in that case, to get both Rick and Will in the group as quick and easy solution to the problem. IIRC Willie also played in the 1980-81 Wall Tour as a drummer. And please do a Pink Floyd TL if you find the time and energy, because that would be great! If that doesn't work out, I wonder if you ever plan to return to the Till There Was You TL you did around a year and a half ago? It was very interesting and fascinating, and also had great potential. If you need help for deciding which songs go to Paul or the Beatles, and if you haven't already found this website, I think its a great one for deciding - http://www.myrsten.nu/worldnet/beatlesongs.htm.

 

[RedBeetle]

That makes sense in that case, to get both Rick and Will in the group as quick and easy solution to the problem. IIRC Willie also played in the 1980-81 Wall Tour as a drummer. And please do a Pink Floyd TL if you find the time and energy, because that would be great! If that doesn't work out, I wonder if you ever plan to return to the Till There Was You TL you did around a year and a half ago? It was very interesting and fascinating, and also had great potential. If you need help for deciding which songs go to Paul or the Beatles, and if you haven't already found this website, I think its a great one for deciding - http://www.myrsten.nu/worldnet/beatlesongs.htm.

I have been getting some new ideas for a reboot of Till There Was You, may get back to that. Been thinking of going more into how he makes the decision instead of just putting it out there.

 

[RedBeetle]

Bump

 

[danmartin73]

Don't have any original ideas to offer up, so I've once again collected some other forum discussions and writings on this topic, as I feel they give good answers too. There are also some other threads on this website that also discuss what could have happened had Syd not become an acid casualty.

If Syd Barrett stayed in Pink Floyd.... - Progressive Rock Music Forum - Page 1

...and wasnt mentally disturbed from drug abuse, how do you think Pink Floyd would have turned out?...

www.progarchives.com

Shines On?

althistory.fandom.com

An Alternate Pink Floyd

althistory.fandom.com

A Different Floyd

althistory.fandom.com

As a bonus, this answers the question of what if the group released an album before Piper - https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/The_Pink_Floyd_Sound_(album)_(The_Other_Side_of_Music)