What is the Evolution of English Cities like in an English victory in the Hundred Years War?

[The Gybson Boy]

The city of London in the 15th century
Let's say Henry V lives in 1422 and is able to win the Hundred Years' War sometime between 1425 and 1428, Charles VII is captured, Joan of Arc continues her life as a simple peasant in Bar, and the Plantagenets manage to establish themselves as Kings of France definitively, this in theory means that the Anglo-French Kings would be residing in Paris, the question here is, what would English cities look like in this scenario?
England would certainly be the junior partner in the union, how would cities like London, York, Winchester, Birmingham etc evolve here? How would England as a whole evolve without the constant presence of the monarch?

 

[Comte de Geneve]

I don't think this has any impact of the development of the English cities outside of London. England is still going to be a prosperous land with a robust internal and external trade. I don't even think that it has that much negative effect on London, given its geographical position and importance as the major trading entrepot with the continent. Parliament will still sit at Westminster and in any event a senior member of the royal family will at the least be residing in London as viceroy. Beyond that it is hard to say because there will still be forces pulling Lancastrian France and Lancastrian England apart despite the personal union.

 

[ArtosStark]

England would certainly be the junior partner in the union

Depends. England was very definitely the smaller state, but it was arguably one of the most centralized states in Europe at the time with a well developed tax and logistical structure going back to the Anglo Saxons. France, on the other hand, had a lot of very powerful vassals and a fairly decentralized system of government. So it not necessarily guaranteed that France would be favoured. At least not at first.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

The city of London in the 15th century
Let's say Henry V lives in 1422 and is able to win the Hundred Years' War sometime between 1425 and 1428, Charles VII is captured, Joan of Arc continues her life as a simple peasant in Bar, and the Plantagenets manage to establish themselves as Kings of France definitively, this in theory means that the Anglo-French Kings would be residing in Paris, the question here is, what would English cities look like in this scenario?
England would certainly be the junior partner in the union, how would cities like London, York, Winchester, Birmingham etc evolve here? How would England as a whole evolve without the constant presence of the monarch?

The English cities wouldn't really change up until the Age of Discoveries as the benefits from colonial trades would likely go more to France than to England therefore they would be poorer than OTL.
Also if a mercantile bourgeoisie still develops in France-England then the French cities will probably be preferred over the English ones (except maybe for London) during the industrial revolution

 

[The Gybson Boy]

The English cities wouldn't really change up until the Age of Discoveries as the benefits from colonial trades would likely go more to France than to England therefore they would be poorer than OTL.
Also if a mercantile bourgeoisie still develops in France-England then the French cities will probably be preferred over the English ones (except maybe for London) during the industrial revolution

Could England become a "periphery" of France? such as Scotland in relation to England after the rise of the Stuarts?

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Could England become a "periphery" of France? such as Scotland in relation to England after the rise of the Stuarts?

I think it will become a periphery of France, however not immediately after the War of French Succession as England is the base of Angevin power, therefore they wouldn't neglect it until they have centralized France enough (which can take a long time).

 

[Henry III]

It would take the Plantagenets the rest of the century to get full control of France also Henry Vi may have been developmentally disabled

Like the second emperor of the Western Jin Dynasty

Also Henry Vi was not a bad person he was just somebody that liked any force of character so their a good chance his own brother would depose him

Or be the ruler behind the throne

For the King of England and France he would face the United monarchs of Spain and the potential Hasburge empire

Just like otl Valos Dynasty

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Given how France was much much richer than England in the later medieval ages, at the time of the Hundred Years War, (in particular Aquitane and the Occitan region), I think it is likely for major groups of English merchants to settle into French cities and assimilate into French culture. As for the English cities, it is possible for trade between them and the French cities to bind England even closer to the European mainland.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

It would take the Plantagenets the rest of the century to get full control of France also Henry Vi may have been developmentally disabled

Like the second emperor of the Western Jin Dynasty

Also Henry Vi was not a bad person he was just somebody that liked any force of character so their a good chance his own brother would depose him

Or be the ruler behind the throne

For the King of England and France he would face the United monarchs of Spain and the potential Hasburge empire

Just like otl Valos Dynasty

Spain and the Habsburgs wouldn't have much point in attacking France-England, they have no claim to the throne or any duchy, it would be a waste of resources

 

[Henry III]

Spain and the Habsburgs wouldn't have much point in attacking France-England, they have no claim to the throne or any duchy, it would be a waste of resources

It's very much about power politics buy the 1500s the Kings of England and France would see the Hasburge as trying to encircle them

Also the line of Burgundy if the Hasburge still get it will give them a very strong claim to the throne

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Given how France was much much richer than England in the later medieval ages, at the time of the Hundred Years War, (in particular Aquitane and the Occitan region), I think it is likely for major groups of English merchants to settle into French cities and assimilate into French culture. As for the English cities, it is possible for trade between them and the French cities to bind England even closer to the European mainland.

Aquitaine was already under Angevin rule OTL before the war and i don't know about any significant English migration there, merchants usually did business in their local city or went somewhere to buy their marchandise.

It's very much about power politics buy the 1500s the Kings of England and France would see the Hasburge as trying to encircle them

Also the line of Burgundy if the Habsburg still get it will give them a very strong claim to the throne

Well yes, but they would have a century to consolidate their rule, I thought you meant just after the War of French Succession (which is unlikely), also since France-England is united would they develop Anglicanism or something similar? Would they have Scotland under their control? What is certain is that the Habsburgs will have a tough time

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

It's very much about power politics buy the 1500s the Kings of England and France would see the Hasburge as trying to encircle them

given the POD- which predates the birth of not only Charles the Bold, but could also butterfly his parents' marriage- I'm strongly skeptical that events shake out exactly as OTL.Hell, Henry V living could mean that he endorses Humphrey-Jacqueline of Bavaria's marriage (he liked the woman enough to choose her as godmother for Henry VI) and we see a Plantagenet cadet inheriting Holland, Hainaut and Zeeland instead of Philippe le Bon.

 

[Henry III]

Aquitaine was already under Angevin rule OTL before the war and i don't know about any significant English migration there, merchants usually did business in their local city or went somewhere to buy their marchandise.

Well yes, but they would have a century to consolidate their rule, I thought you meant just after the War of French Succession (which is unlikely), also since France-England is united would they develop Anglicanism or something similar? Would they have Scotland under their control? What is certain is that the Habsburgs will have a tough time

The begunians could break away to create their own Kingdom and the new Plantagenets dynasty of France would need to

Reestablished royal authority and we don't really know if they would just control Northern France with the Valos remnant to the South and East

Threatening the Plantegent portion

If it's most of France then the begundians would pursue alliances to have a power block against new dynasty of France

Scotland would need a new foreign baker to support them England never conquer Scotland due to the energies being divided

Between the British isles and the continent and even know Henry V of England and Henri II of France would need to stabilize their position

The capital would clearly be Paris and would lead England to be increasingly neglected unless it's given to the crown Prince to rule

Or the king splits his twin between England and France but government in this time was very personal

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

The begunians could break away to create their own Kingdom and the new Plantagenets dynasty of France would need to

Reestablished royal authority and we don't really know if they would just control Northern France with the Valos remnant to the South and East

Threatening the Plantegent portion

If it's most of France then the begundians would pursue alliances to have a power block against new dynasty of France

Scotland would need a new foreign baker to support them England never conquer Scotland due to the energies being divided

Between the British isles and the continent and even know Henry V of England and Henri II of France would need to stabilize their position

The capital would clearly be Paris and would lead England to be increasingly neglected unless it's given to the crown Prince to rule

Or the king splits his twin between England and France but government in this time was very personal

This is a timeline of total English victory therefore all of France is under the rule of the Angevin and they are crowned Kings of France, the Burgundians would get a lot of Duchies however they would have to accept English rule, as for Scotland there are no immediate enemies to France-England so their chance to survive the revengeful Angevin is very little

 

[Janprimus]

given the POD- which predates the birth of not only Charles the Bold, but could also butterfly his parents' marriage- I'm strongly skeptical that events shake out exactly as OTL.Hell, Henry V living could mean that he endorses Humphrey-Jacqueline of Bavaria's marriage (he liked the woman enough to choose her as godmother for Henry VI) and we see a Plantagenet cadet inheriting Holland, Hainaut and Zeeland instead of Philippe le Bon.

Then conflict is on, since the house of Valois-Burgundy had been a principal ally in gaining the throne of France for England. Would England really want to upset an ally in their sphere of influence, since like IOTL then they well very soon come to a deal with their Valois cousins. IMHO I can't imagine agreeing to sell the kingdom of France to the kings of England, not by being given a sphere of influence of their own and the Low Countries belong to them.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Then conflict is on, since the house of Valois-Burgundy had been a principal ally in gaining the throne of France for England. Would England really want to upset an ally in their sphere of influence, since like IOTL then they well very soon come to a deal with their Valois cousins. IMHO I can't imagine agreeing to sell the kingdom of France to the kings of England, not by being given a sphere of influence of their own and the Low Countries belong to them.

Yes, but this would've probably been accompanied by a marriage between the two dynasties to try to unite the two families, which if successful would mean that the King of France-England would also get the former territories of the Valois-Burgundy Dynasty.

 

[Hearkener]

England would certainly be the junior partner in the union, how would cities like London, York, Winchester, Birmingham etc evolve here? How would England as a whole evolve without the constant presence of the monarch?

It has long been my opinion that the socio-economic pressures of the early modern period would probably result in the destruction of the Anglo-French monarchy in this scenario. England would likely become a Commonwealth eventually.

 

[Janprimus]

Yes, but this would've probably been accompanied by a marriage between the two dynasties to try to unite the two families, which if successful would mean that the King of France-England would also get the former territories of the Valois-Burgundy Dynasty.

I'm not sure you understood me. The Plantagenet hold on France was far from secure, and in certain parts of France depended on Valois-Burgundy. Moreover the connection between the counties of Hainaut, Holland & Zeeland and England was between Jacoba van Beieren (the (Bavarian) Wittelsbachs had succeeded the house of Avesnes) known in English as Jacqueline of Hainaut. and Humphrey of Lancaster, duke of Gloucester. The gains there wouldn't be directly for the king of England and potentially hurt their position in France.
Valois-Burgundy had been planning this unification since the Double Marriage (between the heirs of the houses of Dampierre (Valois-Burgundy) and Avesnes (Wittelsbach)) of Cambrai/Kamerijk (1385), the price for Wittelsbachs, who demanded it to be upgraded to a Double Marriage. Originally one of the Valois-Burgundy children was intended for a French match. This, but much more the fact, that John the Fearless did not get along with Louis of Orléans and to a lesser degree the members of the main house of Valois.

The rulers of England and Valois-Burgundy have agreed on a sphere of influence, Humphrey, duke of Gloucester went against the interests of both. Worst case for England, it would drive Valois-Burgundy in the arms of the other Valois branches, combined I can see them defeating England actually.

 

[Elfwine]

The rulers of England and Valois-Burgundy have agreed on a sphere of influence, Humphrey, duke of Gloucester went against the interests of both. Worst case for England, it would drive Valois-Burgundy in the arms of the other Valois branches, combined I can see them defeating England actually.

Asking more to develop this than because I have any faith it would happen, but would the Burgundians accept something elsewhere in exchange for this change in their spheres of influence? Or would even proposing that be making Gloucester's bad judgment even more provocative?

 

[Janprimus]

Asking more to develop this than because I have any faith it would happen, but would the Burgundians accept something elsewhere in exchange for this change in their spheres of influence? Or would even proposing that be making Gloucester's bad judgment even more provocative?

IMHO it send the signal that England actually backs the bad judgement of Gloucester, making things worse for England. Wouldn't it be easier to give Gloucester another dukedom (with holdings) in England and a French holding in compensation? Valois-Burgundy feels these lands are dynastically theirs, so they will want something more costly than any compensation for Gloucester would have been. More of eastern France, maybe they want Flanders and Artois (perhaps also Burgundy) to be released of French vassalization and become independent, etc.