Of course Canada is very vast and sparsely populated. But what could the maximum population of Canada be for example. Is there an agreed upon number for the carrying capacity of Canada? Perhaps Britain banning immigration to America, or America being less of a suitable destination for migrants. Canada would definitely pick up a lot of the slack. Places like the Maritimes, the Praries, large parts of Ontario can host much larger populations for sure. Thoughts?
What is Canada's Population Carrying Capacity? And How Could Canada Have Maximized its Population
- Thread starter Shutenmaru
- Start date
Given that the US is largely self-sustaining in terms of food production with .47 hectares per person. Canada could support at least 2.5 times its current population since it has 1.27 hectares of arable land per person. Canada will also gain a lot of new arable land thanks to global warming.
Chris Nation
Banned
This is the answer. However, it would almost certainly have to be a pre-1900 POD, otherwise Canada is also a less suitable destination for migrants, because the Canadian and American economies are inexorably linked by 1900. Probably something to do with the US Civil War. If the Civil War ends badly, the American West looks a lot different, and industry in the Northeast could languish, meanwhile Canada can still draw on its connection with Britain for some time. Additionally, the British economy would remain stronger than OTL, only having to compete with the Germans.
If Canada in this TL is still keen to take in non-British immigrants to settle the Prairies, then Canada becomes the dominant power in North America.
That doesn't do anything except having a bunch of poverty infested towns that are unable to support or justify themselves economically and people too poor to be able to leave and trapped there.
In 1914 there was the Komagata Matu incident when a ship load of Asian Indian immigrants arrived off Vancouver and the after a quick debate the Canadian Navy convinces them to go back to the sub continent. This was a time of Asian Indian settlement in Canada but institutional racism limited the numbers.
Perhaps a POD would be the Maru being allowed to land and Canada accepting that more immigrants is a good thing especially once WW1 starts. There is going to be a lot of racism and xenophobia especially at first. But If the Canadian government actively encourage more Asian immigration (Perhaps at first using the excuse that there’s a war on) then a percentage of the large economically poor population of Indian flocks to Canada. Which results on a greater population.
Perhaps a POD would be the Maru being allowed to land and Canada accepting that more immigrants is a good thing especially once WW1 starts. There is going to be a lot of racism and xenophobia especially at first. But If the Canadian government actively encourage more Asian immigration (Perhaps at first using the excuse that there’s a war on) then a percentage of the large economically poor population of Indian flocks to Canada. Which results on a greater population.
Probably true. I wasn't really saying that it would work, just that it was an attempt(albeit more of a half-baked aspirational one) to extend Canada's settlement patterns northward.
Kick
The real problem is that they best be prepared to buy serious cold weather clothing and find a way to enjoy life when it's -20C for six months.
Native born Canadians have accepted the reality; most of the European and some of the Asian immigrants can adapt. The climate here is not really conducive, with regards to a huge surge in immigration.
This is why our Current PM's idea to prop up our aging demographic with immigrants is such a failure.
This is why our nation is on the cusp of a Constitutional crisis, with regards to the level of true authority in Ottawa.
The muppet that is running our country is hell-bent on an agenda that is unprecedented.
There are certainly interesting times coming here in Alberta.
We will not accept his Socialistic ideals (Universal income "benefit" and the attendant proposals to insinuate the Fed's influence into our lives) in this Province.
And this has veered way off into "Current Politics" territory.
But it's only about Canada...and who really cares about them?
In all reality? No one of any importance on the Global scale.
And we have Trudeau 2.0 to thank for this as well.
I fear what is to come in this country in the next couple of years...honestly? I do.
I foresee a civil war TBQH.
Canadian soldiers will not shoot upset (and armed) civilians here in the west.
I am not "Nostradumbass".
Something is going to happen though.
Alberta is "MEGA" pissed off with our place (influence) in the current "Constitutional Parliament".
All we want to do is go to work.
Period.
This is not what we're hearing from Ottawa.
Native born Canadians have accepted the reality; most of the European and some of the Asian immigrants can adapt. The climate here is not really conducive, with regards to a huge surge in immigration.
This is why our Current PM's idea to prop up our aging demographic with immigrants is such a failure.
This is why our nation is on the cusp of a Constitutional crisis, with regards to the level of true authority in Ottawa.
The muppet that is running our country is hell-bent on an agenda that is unprecedented.
There are certainly interesting times coming here in Alberta.
We will not accept his Socialistic ideals (Universal income "benefit" and the attendant proposals to insinuate the Fed's influence into our lives) in this Province.
And this has veered way off into "Current Politics" territory.
But it's only about Canada...and who really cares about them?
In all reality? No one of any importance on the Global scale.
And we have Trudeau 2.0 to thank for this as well.
I fear what is to come in this country in the next couple of years...honestly? I do.
I foresee a civil war TBQH.
Canadian soldiers will not shoot upset (and armed) civilians here in the west.
I am not "Nostradumbass".
Something is going to happen though.
Alberta is "MEGA" pissed off with our place (influence) in the current "Constitutional Parliament".
All we want to do is go to work.
Period.
This is not what we're hearing from Ottawa.
Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
It's been just a little less than a year since the last time I kicked you for an extremely long political flamebait post. I guess this is a holiday tradition?
As has been said, it likely needs to be pre-1900. In that context, A huge percentage of Canada's immigration during the 1800's emigrated was balanced out by emigration, much of it to the US. In fact, it was only after 1900 that the net migration of Canada became positive. Population growth in this era was down more to natural increase.
( New Estimates of Gross National Product, Canada, 1870-1926: Some Implications for Canadian Development M. C. Urquhart)
Reduce or eliminate this tendency, probably through diverting investment that historically went from Britain to the US into Canada, and you will have gone a long way to increasing Canada's population
| Decade | Population at end of decade | Natural Increase | Immigration | Emigration | Net Migration |
| 1861-1871 | 2,630,000 | 563,000 | 186,000 | 376,000 | -190,000 |
| 1871-1881 | 3,164,000 | 619,000 | 353,000 | 438,000 | -85,000 |
| 1881-1891 | 3,628,000 | 669,000 | 903,000 | 1,108,000 | -205,000 |
| 1891-1901 | 4,101,000 | 654,000 | 326,000 | 507,000 | -181,000 |
| 1901-1911 | 5,528,000 | 711,000 | 1,782,000 | 1,066,000 | 716,000 |
| 1911-1921 | 6,677,000 | 916,000 | 1,592,000 | 1,360,000 | 232,000 |
| 1921-1931 | 8,169,000 | 1,389,000 | 103,000 |
Reduce or eliminate this tendency, probably through diverting investment that historically went from Britain to the US into Canada, and you will have gone a long way to increasing Canada's population
I am very open to pre-1900 PoDs I just posted this in After 1900 because the end result I am looking for is increased population in the 20th and 21st centuries.
Good to know... because one sure-fire way for an increased Canadian population would've been if Britain hadn't been so damn generous in its terms at the Treaty of Paris way back in 1783... "13 Colonies you were, eh? Well, uti possidetis juris, ungrateful colonists... you can have that and nothing more. Enjoy the Atlantic Coast!"
The numbers weren’t particularly large because of institutional racism, but Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Indo-Canadians all served in the Canadian Army during the First World War. Maybe their service could’ve been leveraged to open Canada up to larger numbers of Asian immigrants after the war.
Agricultural experiments to get more native food plants under cultivation?
Introduce reindeer herding and the farming of muskox?
You'd need a Canada that wants to increase population in the far north, and doesn't mind that population increase being native.
Introduce reindeer herding and the farming of muskox?
You'd need a Canada that wants to increase population in the far north, and doesn't mind that population increase being native.
Most Native animals are actually very hard to farm commercially, If you take Bison for example. Bison are raised commercially, and their meat (which is very lean and quite tasty) has a fair market for it. However, they are much, MUCH more difficult to raise than cattle.
For starters they are much more defensive. You cannot walk through a herd of Bison like you can a domesticated herd of cattle. You cannot herd them on foot. It is difficult to herd them at all. If you want to work them you need to put feed out in the pens that day to draw the bulk in and then come in in trucks to encourage stragglers to join the herd. You then usually need a rope and pully system to work your corral gates from a central location as you cannot get in with them. Your entire handling system needs to be significantly more reinforced (8-10' tall crowding tub with crash gates over the head gates and stronger side walls) as despite being slightly smaller than cattle they can smash right through most normal handling systems.
Their meat growth patterns are also difficult to work with. Cattle can survive in very cold temperatures if they have shelter from the wind, an insulator (usually straw but sometimes their feed) to lay on and if their feed ration is sufficient. In Western Canada it is normal to keep large herds outside all winter (often in -40,-50 C conditions) and they will get by alright. If done right they will maintain their condition right through it all. Cows will eat more in cold weather to maintain condition. Bison, on the other hand, do not need and will not use an insulator and deliberately cluster in the open in groups to keep warm. This would not be a problem except that they will not eat during the coldest weather. From a commercial perspective this means that if you get a cold snap in winter it is very hard to ensure that you can have them back in good condition when you need to sell them come spring. It, and the other factors I listed, are the main reason that Bison meat remains a niche product rather than a true competitor with beef. and most native species will have much the same issues. They are just not good competitors to traditional animals in most cases.
Well, there is your daily lesson on bison husbandry, sorry I kind of ran on there. For your final quick fact! Did you know why you cannot raise Bison and sheep together or beside each other? Cause the SHEEP will kill the BISON! Sheep carry diseases that don't bother them but will wipe out bison herds. You are welcome.
This post is right on the money. Canada of course can support much more people. But it's not hard to see how arriving in late 19th century-early 20th century Canada it wouldn't be tempting for many to move to a more populous somewhat warmer country just below.
If Oil/gold were discovered in the western provinces earlier it would have provided a bigger incentive to move there and stay.
Even wheat could be a good motivator. It helped fuel later population booms in the west. An earlier acquisition of the North-West Territories (or earlier pivot by the HBC and NWC from fur trading to colonization) combined with an easier route across the Canadian Shield (probably a railway) would help boost the population in Manitoba. That could then start spilling onto the plains, especially if land incentives are used as OTL. Increased population and infrastructure in turn makes the area more attractive for new settlers and increases the likelihood of mineral exploration. There are opportunities, but they require some sunken cost to get started earlier. And that is difficult as the US is an attractive option with more of the sunken cost already there.
The US until the early 1920s had an almost "open borders" policy for European migrants. If the US became much more isolationist earlier on you can perhaps see the millions of at least Italian, jewish, southern European immigrants who moved to he US in that late 19th century early 20th century period go to Canada instead.
Especially if there was that further western development.
Musk ox are commercially farmed on at least one farm in Alaska, part of a 60 year old domestication experiment.
After watching a few videos I think they might have a good chance:
Musk ox are surprisingly short, coming to waist high on a person.
It was in a chute, but several were being herded on foot, at one point by just one person.
They stood quietly to be milked and combed.
They can imprint on people, the farm tried to avoid that but it could be good for turning them into a farm animal.