Assuming no nukes get used....Kirov better hope those Shipwrecks can get through. If not, New Jersey's guns aren't gonna have that much difficulty....
What If These Two Warships Met In Combat
- Thread starter Driftless
- Start date
Too slow to close. The winner of Warrior vs Gloir would take it apart at leasure.
Does this New Jersey have its missiles?
Should be Warrior - bigger, faster, heavier armour, more guns - but they both have issues protecting the ends, they're both experimental designs nobody really knows how to fight effectively, so you could definitely see it going either way.
Monitor's best chance is to bait the monsters into confined waters where their speed doesn't do them any good and they can't close easily, then hope for a solid hit on something important with the big guns; there's not a great deal for the enemy to shoot back at (though bear in mind Virginia did score some damaging hits, and either armoured frigate has many more guns of comparable power). The armoured frigates always have the option of going somewhere the monitor isn't, and if they have to just bull past at full speed they can go from one end of the Dahlgren XI's effective range to the other in the time it takes Monitor to get off two rounds per gun. In the end, the RN might end up going seriously old-school, ram or board or both.
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I think the post was proposing Marat vs the Austro-Hungarian dreadnought SMS Prinz Eugen. But 1938 heavy cruiser vs an non-upgraded 1912 Dreadnought would be interesting too.
SMS Prinz Eugen (1912) - Wikipedia
Boarding the Monitor would be a pretty impressive display of bravado or insanity (depending on the result). What were crew sizes like, and is it possible to lock everyone out of the Monitor?
What about Prince of Wales+Repulse vs Haruna+Kongo had Force Z not been sunk by bombers? Who would have won such a battle?
A Kongo wouldn’t do any better against a KGV than Scharnhorst did. For Repulse it’s who hits first.
Just get the borders to jamb the muzzles and then run from side to side and tip it over like the Vasa. Warrior could always wait for the weather to turn and then render assistance as Monitor goes down
Not 6 at once. I had a custom scenario in Harpoon that pitted a Soviet squadron and a NATO one that always ended in a knife fight with 20mm at close range no matter which side I played. Wish I could recall the mix but each side could counter the others blows as they closed on each other.
Fearless Leader
Donor
As brave as Hose and his crew were, this would have been a bloodbath given that the Germans vastly outrange the Rainbow's antiquated weaponry.
In addition to giving the RCN a tragic origin story, the loss of Hose probably alters it's development in a number of ways... depending on who takes his place.
There's also the fact that both ships have screening forces of various quality. The Japanese would definitely have the edge in that regard. Furthermore, Phillips would have a difficult time of getting back to Singapore without fighter cover...
On a slightly different note, in my TL (see signature) the British kick the Italians out of Libya in late 1941 and thus send more ships to Singapore in TTL. A different European war means that the Nelson and Rodney are in better shape so they're the ones sent in TTL instead of OTL along with additional screening vessels. Anyone care to speculate on that kind of battle? On the one hand, the Nelrods are far better armed and armoured, but the Japanese definitely have the speed advantage. However the IJN has to cover their invasion convoys.
In the interests of keeping the TL's focus on Albania, I said that the British are able to engage and inflict heavy damage on the Japanese, sending both Kongos back to Japan for extensive repairs and sinking several screening vessels. The RN gets similarly mauled and is finished off by Japanese bombers the following morning. Thoughts?
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So if 6 missiles are approaching the Spruance then it wouldn’t be able to counter all of them ?
Assuming the turret raverse is damaged by a hit or a shell fragment so the Warrior can close enough to send out a boarding party covered by Warrior's guns, the boarders jam the turret traverse more securely, shove dynamite or something down the gun barrels as an added precation and then attach hawsers.
Warrior won't tow the Monitor very fast but as long as the turret is unable to move there's nothing the Monitor can do, but surrender, hope for a cable failure or sink under the uneven towing loads and waves.
That's what Aegis is for. A Spruance didn't have it, if it did then it would be a Ticonderoga.
This is a kinda dumb one compared to the serious ones in here, but it is one that I spoke with someone in the real world about for a fun discussion once, so I can't help but throw it in here, where there's more naval aficionados for modern warfare - I'm more of a medieval-to-Age of Sail guy, so there's bound to be people in here with more experience with this era 
It's a crisp summer's day in the open ocean, and two ships are rather hurriedly trying to get back to friendly shores when, by a fluke of random chance, they happen to encounter one another on the seas with no support; a situation that is borderline impossible, considering that these vessels are, well...flattops, aircraft carriers without a protective battlegroup. Fighting for the Allies, the United States, the American way of life and warm apple pie is the Lady Lex herself, CV-2, in all her battlecruiser converted glory.
For the Axis powers, the Third Reich and the enduring glory of smoked bratwurst, the Graf Zeppelin sallies forth to throw down against its counterpart from across the oceans.
Clearly, the time to strike is now: all they have to do is hurry their pilots to their planes in a desperate scramble, throw them into the air, and pray that their skills surpass those of their rivals and turn the enemy carrier into a floating wreck, receive medals for destroying the enemy carrier, and return home to a hero's welcome, a bottle of Coca Cola and fresh apple pie/a mug of beer and a bowl of pretzels depending on who wins. At least that's what the movies say; the real thing is probably a lot more complicated, but I'm trying to be dramatic here
Unfortunately for both of them, there's a small caveat.
Neither of them have any planes on board. Either due to certain logistical concerns, political maneuvering or just plain bad luck, both carriers are caught without their associated air wings. Perhaps the Enterprise beat up the Lexington and stole her lunch money, perhaps Goering ate the Graf Zeppelin's air-wing, pilot and plane both, whatever happens, neither of them have any aircraft on board. For most carriers, this'd be a rather dire situation to say the least, as they'd both be expecting an air attack from the other carrier that'd promptly turn them, their crew and their ship into the newest additions to the ocean floor, but since neither of them have planes, the situation's a lot more fair. If this happened with other carriers, you might just get the two politely ignoring one another for a lack of suitable striking power, or at most cursing the hell out of each other over the radio and swearing that they'll be back, like two yappy dogs separated by a small fence.
However, the Lexington and the Graf Zeppelin both have their secondary batteries - the Lexington has four twin 8inch guns in turrets, the Graf Zeppelin has her full complement of secondary batteries, including 16 5.9inch guns mounted in her casemates. Lexington is a little bigger and her battlecruiser pedigree gives her heavier armor, listed as 5-to-7 inches along the belt according to Wikipedia, or some 127-to-178mm. The Graf Zeppelin has less armor (again, Wikipedia), with a belt that varies between 100mm to a mere 60mm, but on paper is about two knots faster than the Lex in exchange.
Whether by gloryhound nature, confidence in victory or believing that it is better to charge the enemy than risk inevitable destruction at the hands of their air wing, (and probably far, far too much faith that they won't get stripped of their command for taking an aircraft carrier into close combat, which is liable to get a WTF response so strong from their superiors that they might not even know what to charge them with for a court martial) both commands make the separate decision to engage. In what will be the world's first ever gun duel between aircraft carriers, who's likely to prevail in this most ungodly of battles?
It's a crisp summer's day in the open ocean, and two ships are rather hurriedly trying to get back to friendly shores when, by a fluke of random chance, they happen to encounter one another on the seas with no support; a situation that is borderline impossible, considering that these vessels are, well...flattops, aircraft carriers without a protective battlegroup. Fighting for the Allies, the United States, the American way of life and warm apple pie is the Lady Lex herself, CV-2, in all her battlecruiser converted glory.
For the Axis powers, the Third Reich and the enduring glory of smoked bratwurst, the Graf Zeppelin sallies forth to throw down against its counterpart from across the oceans.
Clearly, the time to strike is now: all they have to do is hurry their pilots to their planes in a desperate scramble, throw them into the air, and pray that their skills surpass those of their rivals and turn the enemy carrier into a floating wreck, receive medals for destroying the enemy carrier, and return home to a hero's welcome, a bottle of Coca Cola and fresh apple pie/a mug of beer and a bowl of pretzels depending on who wins. At least that's what the movies say; the real thing is probably a lot more complicated, but I'm trying to be dramatic here
Unfortunately for both of them, there's a small caveat.
Neither of them have any planes on board. Either due to certain logistical concerns, political maneuvering or just plain bad luck, both carriers are caught without their associated air wings. Perhaps the Enterprise beat up the Lexington and stole her lunch money, perhaps Goering ate the Graf Zeppelin's air-wing, pilot and plane both, whatever happens, neither of them have any aircraft on board. For most carriers, this'd be a rather dire situation to say the least, as they'd both be expecting an air attack from the other carrier that'd promptly turn them, their crew and their ship into the newest additions to the ocean floor, but since neither of them have planes, the situation's a lot more fair. If this happened with other carriers, you might just get the two politely ignoring one another for a lack of suitable striking power, or at most cursing the hell out of each other over the radio and swearing that they'll be back, like two yappy dogs separated by a small fence.
However, the Lexington and the Graf Zeppelin both have their secondary batteries - the Lexington has four twin 8inch guns in turrets, the Graf Zeppelin has her full complement of secondary batteries, including 16 5.9inch guns mounted in her casemates. Lexington is a little bigger and her battlecruiser pedigree gives her heavier armor, listed as 5-to-7 inches along the belt according to Wikipedia, or some 127-to-178mm. The Graf Zeppelin has less armor (again, Wikipedia), with a belt that varies between 100mm to a mere 60mm, but on paper is about two knots faster than the Lex in exchange.
Whether by gloryhound nature, confidence in victory or believing that it is better to charge the enemy than risk inevitable destruction at the hands of their air wing, (and probably far, far too much faith that they won't get stripped of their command for taking an aircraft carrier into close combat, which is liable to get a WTF response so strong from their superiors that they might not even know what to charge them with for a court martial) both commands make the separate decision to engage. In what will be the world's first ever gun duel between aircraft carriers, who's likely to prevail in this most ungodly of battles?
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In other words any non-AEGIS warship of similar size in that era will struggle to deal with a multiple missile salvo due to a limited number of illuminators for SAMs and CIWS ?
Lexington would murder the GZ in a gunnery duel. Not only does Lexington have heavier, longer ranged guns but they are more efficiently arranged in 4 twin gun turrets rather than spread out around the hull in individual casement mounts that could become unworkable in rough weather.This is a kinda dumb one compared to the serious ones in here, but it is one that I spoke with someone in the real world about for a fun discussion once, so I can't help but throw it in here, where there's more naval aficionados for modern warfare - I'm more of a medieval-to-Age of Sail guy, so there's bound to be people in here with more experience with this era
It's a crisp summer's day in the open ocean, and two ships are rather hurriedly trying to get back to friendly shores when, by a fluke of random chance, they happen to encounter one another on the seas with no support; a situation that is borderline impossible, considering that these vessels are, well...flattops, aircraft carriers without a protective battlegroup. Fighting for the Allies, the United States, the American way of life and warm apple pie is the Lady Lex herself, CV-2, in all her battlecruiser converted glory.
For the Axis powers, the Third Reich and the enduring glory of smoked bratwurst, the Graf Zeppelin sallies forth to throw down against its counterpart from across the oceans.
Clearly, the time to strike is now: all they have to do is hurry their pilots to their planes in a desperate scramble, throw them into the air, and pray that their skills surpass those of their rivals and turn the enemy carrier into a floating wreck, receive medals for destroying the enemy carrier, and return home to a hero's welcome, a bottle of Coca Cola and fresh apple pie/a mug of beer and a bowl of pretzels depending on who wins. At least that's what the movies say; the real thing is probably a lot more complicated, but I'm trying to be dramatic here
Unfortunately for both of them, there's a small caveat.
Neither of them have any planes on board. Either due to certain logistical concerns, political maneuvering or just plain bad luck, both carriers are caught without their associated air wings. Perhaps the Enterprise beat up the Lexington and stole her lunch money, perhaps Goering ate the Graf Zeppelin's air-wing, pilot and plane both, whatever happens, neither of them have any aircraft on board. For most carriers, this'd be a rather dire situation to say the least, as they'd both be expecting an air attack from the other carrier that'd promptly turn them, their crew and their ship into the newest additions to the ocean floor, but since neither of them have planes, the situation's a lot more fair. If this happened with other carriers, you might just get the two politely ignoring one another for a lack of suitable striking power, or at most cursing the hell out of each other over the radio and swearing that they'll be back, like two yappy dogs separated by a small fence.
However, the Lexington and the Graf Zeppelin both have their secondary batteries - the Lexington has four twin 8inch guns in turrets, the Graf Zeppelin has her full complement of secondary batteries, including 16 5.9inch guns mounted in her casemates. Lexington is a little bigger and her battlecruiser pedigree gives her heavier armor, listed as 5-to-7 inches along the belt according to Wikipedia, or some 127-to-178mm. The Graf Zeppelin has less armor (again, Wikipedia), with a belt that varies between 100mm to a mere 60mm, but on paper is about two knots faster than the Lex in exchange.
Whether by gloryhound nature, confidence in victory or believing that it is better to charge the enemy than risk inevitable destruction at the hands of their air wing, (and probably far, far too much faith that they won't get stripped of their command for taking an aircraft carrier into close combat, which is liable to get a WTF response so strong from their superiors that they might not even know what to charge them with for a court martial) both commands make the separate decision to engage. In what will be the world's first ever gun duel between aircraft carriers, who's likely to prevail in this most ungodly of battles?
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Monitor's crew was 49 with a secondary armament of a few pistols, Warrior's 700 including marines and all the weaponry appropriate to landing a substantial shore party. Not sure how easy it would be to secure the decks though.