What if these 2 aircraft meet in combat ….
- Thread starter Monk78
- Start date
The thing is if the F22 is in a dogfight something has gone very wrong. The F22 would have AWACS or ground/naval radar guidance and a Typhoon will have to beat a lot of missiles and electronics long before it can get a lock.
Not that simple. And why would the F22 have ground radar/AWACS support and not the Typhoon?
Technically, a Typhoon outranges an F22 (Meteor 200km max range vs AIM-120D 160Km max range, while the ASRAAM also outranges the AIM-9X as it has a bigger motor).
Typhoons have an IRST while allows them to track targets entirely passively with the radar etc off, which the F22 lacks (a victim of end of cold war budget cuts).
And don't forget the Typhoon's towed decoy, which again the F22 lacks. The latter makes the 4 AMRAAM*s the F22 carries a less certain bet, especially with the threat of Meteors coming back the same way.
Now the F22 is far stealthier, but the Typhoon still has a low frontal RCS.
All in all, the stealth advantage is why the F22 has the edge BVR in a 1 on 1 fight with no outside help. But even so, I would say it is down to who sees who first (again, the F22 has the edge until it gets into range of the Typhoon's IRST).
*Any more than 4 and the rest are under the wings, which will negate the stealth advantage.
Any 4th aircraft vs MiG-31 is very interesting
The R-33 can hit small targets it was designed to take out cruise missiles too
So I’m assuming if it can catch ANY fighter by surprise not pulling more than 3g it can take them out.
Esp if the MiG-31 ripple fire 4 missiles at one target it could be hard for that fighter to dodge all 4 missiles.
Open to any criticism…,
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Which F106 version and what weapons ? Does either side have GCI / AWACS / SAGE etc ?
An F106 using SAGE to fire a Genie at an unsuspecting Mig 21 will be a different engagement than a dog fight using guns with no external help (assuming both fighters have guns…)
Cheers
I was thinking F-104G vs Su-15TM
this is quite likely since f-104G was a striker
F-104S was a interceptor primarily and su-15 would likely not go beyond the borders of USSR
Without GCI the flagon will be helplessly lost
F104G’s over the USSR seems unlikely to me unless the F104 pilot(s) are carrying nukes and don’t plan on making it back to their own base(s.). Even then it seems unlikely to me.
That being said I suppose the F104’s would try to avoid air to air fights unless there was no alternative. As I understand things the missions were likely to be flown solo which probably puts them at a disadvantage if they get into a dogfight,
I suspect that most engagements in Cold War era would be chance encounters, against unsuspecting opponents or just taking down strike planes of opposite side ( or achieve mission kills) and running from enemies fighters. Atleast from Soviet side as they lack a true air superiority fighter before su-27 entered service in some numbers by 1988.
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True , my thought is perhaps a PVO regiment is deployed in Poland or GDR to cover gaps in air cover or to compensate for initial losses
My Guess would be the SU15’s would have some form of GCI and would try and surprise the F104G’s. I don’t know when / if the F104G’s had radar warning gear (I presume they would have had it at some point.)
It is also unclear to me how effective a SU15 would have been vs a low flying F104.
As far as I know the F104G had access to Aim9’s and the 20mm M61 so presumably they would have been able to pose a threat to a SU15 although I don’t know what air to air weapons they would have carried on a strike mission where they might possibly have encountered a forward deployed Su15.
I think a lot of “what if’s” would need to fall into place to actually get a F104 / SU15 dog fight
I am trying to recall if the F106 was ever deployed outside of North America ? (Perhaps briefly to South Korea ?)
I suppose Cuban based Migs might present some possibilities for a dog fight with CONUS based aircraft ?
I tend to agree with many of your comments.
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I remember reading somewhere that they were deployed overseas and were armed with bombs when US Air Force General was visiting as a joke
Really appreciate your comments they are very informative
I’ll bite..
Canadian based CF104’s or CF5’s against anything the Soviets might have been able to send their way.
(I seem to recall reading that the Canadians considered their home based CF104’s and CF5’s as having some utility as emergency air defence air craft..)
As I under stand things the CF5 didn’t have a radar and the radar on the CF104 wasn’t setup for air to air use ? I don’t know if / when they received Aim9’s but presumably they would at least have had guns and could have used radios to get GCI info from NORAD. Assuming it was daytime and the weather was reasonably clear I suppose the pilots could have seen large multi engine air craft from far enough away to be able to get into a firing position ? The tail turrets of their likely opponents might have proven troublesome ?
I realize Canada had other interceptor aircraft with radars and missiles(and rockets) prior to getting their F18’s.
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