What if the Ottomans move the Kaaba to Constantinople?

[Goats-&-Bolts]

What if one of the Emperors of the Ottoman Empire, wishing to cement the idea that he is the ultimate authority in the entire Muslim world, orders the Kaaba and the Black Stone to be moved to Constantinople?

How would other Muslims react? What would the European powers think of this move? What butterflies might it have on culture and history of Constantinople/Anatolia if it becomes the new site of the Hajj?

 

[Mike Stearns]

My knowledge of Islam is pretty limited, but my suspicion is that this can’t possibly end well at all....

 

[cmakk1012]

The Janissaries murder him as he’s leaving Kostantiniyye and install his brother/son on the throne, I can’t see them going for this at all. If by some miracle they were all dead or out of the picture no Muslim soldiers would be willing to move it and obviously no non-Muslims can enter Mecca so hows he gonna move it?

 

[MagnusMaximus]

What? That is completely ASB nonsense. You can't move the Kaaba either way.

 

[Timaeus]

One of the members of the board already talked about people moving the Black Stone before. Namely that it was done by Qarmatian heretics who wanted to destroy it. Not the best precedent for it.

 

[Gabingston]

Good luck doing that, 'cuz it ain't gonna end well for ya.

 

[MagnusMaximus]

One of the members of the board already talked about people moving the Black Stone before. Namely that it was done by Qarmatian heretics who wanted to destroy it. Not the best precedent for it.

The Qarmatians broke it, but it was taken back. Moreover, the Kaaba wasn't moved.

 

[Lalli]

There would be full blown revolt against sultan and his cronies and they would be killed. Then Kaba would be shipped back to Mecca.

 

[Timaeus]

The Qarmatians broke it, but it was taken back. Moreover, the Kaaba wasn't moved.

Ah. Well, either way, not a good precedent for any attempt at changing the Kaaba.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

The Qarmatians broke it, but it was taken back. Moreover, the Kaaba wasn't moved.

Incorrect, they dismantled the Kaaba and then carried the pieces with them to their base of operation within al-Ahsah (eastern Arabia). The Abbasid paid a ransom for the pieces of the Kaaba which they dismantled and transported it back to Makkah to be rebuilt.

The event was overall disastrous for Abbasid hegemony which had declined greatly by this point in its influence over Arabia, which had largely been left to various Bedouin lordships and heterodox groups controlling large swathes of land. Qarmatians were a segment of this development and the most explosive and fueled invariably by the Da’i system used by the rising Fatimid state to inspire Shi’i resistance to the Abbasid state. This status of Arabian lawlessness, is attested even during the Zanj rebellion, where the Zanj conquered Makkah despite no real territorial integrity between southern Iraq and the holy city.

 

[TimTurner]

As a Muslim, I'm pretty certain in thinking that this would be rank blasphemy...

 

[Falecius]

As a Muslim, I'm pretty certain in thinking that this would be rank blasphemy...

It would more likely be seen as outright madness.
As in "the Sultan has gone insane, poor fellow, let's depose him and intern him quietly somewhere comfortable where he does no harm". He'd be quickly replaced in a palace coup anyway (either a bloodless or a bloody one). Clearly, nobody would carry out a decision to move the sanctuary.

 

[kholieken]

It wouldn't have any effect on Hajj. Several other requirement of Hajj : standing on certain places, running between two place, zam zam water could not be moved.

 

[Al-numbers]

It won't change much. Moving the Kaaba won't change the direction Muslims pray to. The structure is just a marker to where people prayed towards, not an actual building to be worshiped about, like a church or relic (the Black Stone notwithstanding). Fun fact: the Prophet Muhammad and his early converts actually prayed to Jerusalem before receiving a revelation to pray towards Makkah.

Besides that, it also won't change the pilgrimage of the Hajj or Umrah, which involves much more than just circumbulating the Kaaba. There's the fast walk between the hills Safa and Marwa, the congregation at Arafah (which is so important to pilgrims Muhammad said thus: "Hajj is Arafah"), the stoning at Mina and the night at Muzdalifa, and other events which would still continue despite the Kaaba's dismantilation.

Everyone up above has already said what'll happen to the Ottoman sultan if he tries, but there's also the option of locals to say, "Well, there goes the old marker. Let's build a new one instead."

 

[water123]

There's not a whole lot of ways to somehow get Sunni, Shi'a, and Ibadi Muslims to all unite against the Sultan, but this might be one of them, especially if he tries to move some of the other major landmarks of the Hajj to Istanbul as well.

 

[Farfromhome]

Backlash aside could this create a directly Turko centric sect of Islam?

 

[TimTurner]

It would more likely be seen as outright madness.
As in "the Sultan has gone insane, poor fellow, let's depose him and intern him quietly somewhere comfortable where he does no harm". He'd be quickly replaced in a palace coup anyway (either a bloodless or a bloody one). Clearly, nobody would carry out a decision to move the sanctuary.

Why not both? Madness and blasphemy at the same time?

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

There's not a whole lot of ways to somehow get Sunni, Shi'a, and Ibadi Muslims to all unite against the Sultan, but this might be one of them, especially if he tries to move some of the other major landmarks of the Hajj to Istanbul as well.

It depends on the Shi’i however. As was mentioned earlier, the most major case of removal or destruction of the Kaaba, was done by an Is’maili Shi’i group, the Qarmatians.

 

[Avrorrange]

What about moving it under the guise of protecting it from infidel attack(i.e. the Portuguese actually attempting to attack Mecca)?

 

[destiple]

but abdul malik b marwan did move the site of pilgimmage to "dome on the rock" in opposition to abdullah b zubair's site at Mecca

interesting thread

I would suspect if they bribe sufficent scholars and keep the arabs infighting they might very well get away with it, although mecca and medina will always be a site of pilgimmage albiet a minor one