What if the Malagasy didn't settle Madagascar?

[Bobbbcat2]

One of those events in OTL that would probably be dismissed as implausible if it was in an ATL is the settlement of Madagascar. The island is usually thought to have been settled by both Bantu people and seafearers from Borneo about 2000 years ago. Today the Malagasy language is Austronesian and closely related to many Borneans languages.

But what if the Borneans never settled Madagascar and the island was instead being settled only by mainland Africans?

What would happen when the Arabs and Europeans arrive?

 

[ramones1986]

Well, I have this concept where the East Barito speakers, particularly the Maanyan, would settle in Sri Lanka in about the same period as OTL migration to Madagascar.

 

[Proto-Indo-European]

We don't actually know when the Bantu arrived or how, and the Austronesians almost certainly arrived well before them. I think it's possible that if the Austronesians never get there, there's no pull factor to bring the Bantu over (whether that be slavery or trade or whatever) and the island remains unsettled until the Europeans arrive.

 

[Gloss]

We don't actually know when the Bantu arrived or how, and the Austronesians almost certainly arrived well before them. I think it's possible that if the Austronesians never get there, there's no pull factor to bring the Bantu over (whether that be slavery or trade or whatever) and the island remains unsettled until the Europeans arrive.

Unlikely, the island is too big and would be too empty to avoid settlement from Swahili speakers or Arabs later on, even Southern Indians.

 

[Proto-Indo-European]

Unlikely, the island is too big and would be too empty to avoid settlement from Swahili speakers or Arabs later on, even Southern Indians.

I imagine Arabs would discover the island, but I'm not sure there would be any incentive for them to settle there. It wouldn't be on any major shipping routes until you started getting trade around the Horn of Africa. Likewise I can't see Southern Indians getting there, they never even made it to Mauritius.

I do think it's possible that Arabs would set up slave colonies pre-European discovery, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion or even likely given the cost of such a venture.

 

[Revachah]

One of those events in OTL that would probably be dismissed as implausible if it was in an ATL is the settlement of Madagascar. The island is usually thought to have been settled by both Bantu people and seafearers from Borneo about 2000 years ago. Today the Malagasy language is Austronesian and closely related to many Borneans languages.

But what if the Borneans never settled Madagascar and the island was instead being settled only by mainland Africans?

What would happen when the Arabs and Europeans arrive?

It wasn't "Borneans", it was Banjarese peoples with Sama Bajau and other sea dwelleing Southeast Asia is who had already absorbed and mixed with proto-Swahili/Sabaki people along the coast.

Regardless there is belief of an earlier pre-Indicized Southeast Asian partially derived population was settled on the land.

I'm one to think the trade winds would inevitably make settlement in a matter of time.

 

[Gloss]

I imagine Arabs would discover the island, but I'm not sure there would be any incentive for them to settle there. It wouldn't be on any major shipping routes until you started getting trade around the Horn of Africa. Likewise I can't see Southern Indians getting there, they never even made it to Mauritius.

I do think it's possible that Arabs would set up slave colonies pre-European discovery, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion or even likely given the cost of such a venture.

Do Arabs, Somalis, Swahilis need a reason to gradually settle the land when they discover it? I mean it's not like they need a reason to exploit untapped lands if they found them, I'm quite curious whether there was ever territories that were discovered but were left uninhabited.

 

[Proto-Indo-European]

Do Arabs, Somalis, Swahilis need a reason to gradually settle the land when they discover it? I mean it's not like they need a reason to exploit untapped lands if they found them, I'm quite curious whether there was ever territories that were discovered but were left uninhabited.

Mauritius was discovered by Arabs and left uninhabited until European colonization. Same thing with the Chagos Archipelago and all of the other islands that weren't directly on the trade routes. Colonization requires incentive, and the Arabs have no incentive to colonize an empty Madagascar unless it can serve as a useful port for facilitating the slave trade.

 

[Revachah]

Mauritius was discovered by Arabs and left uninhabited until European colonization. Same thing with the Chagos Archipelago and all of the other islands that weren't directly on the trade routes. Colonization requires incentive, and the Arabs have no incentive to colonize an empty Madagascar unless it can serve as a useful port for facilitating the slave trade.

Do Arabs, Somalis, Swahilis need a reason to gradually settle the land when they discover it? I mean it's not like they need a reason to exploit untapped lands if they found them, I'm quite curious whether there was ever territories that were discovered but were left uninhabited.

Madagascar was a critical source of food and goods, remember in Sofala and all the gold mining ventures required supplies for their non-food producing enslaved workforce.

While there would be no cattle or rice, who ever settled first would inevitably take advantage of the naive animals that didn't know predators and eventually settle.

 

[Gloss]

Madagascar was a critical source of food and goods, remember in Sofala and all the gold mining ventures required supplies for their non-food producing enslaved workforce.

While there would be no cattle or rice, who ever settled first would inevitably take advantage of the naive animals that didn't know predators and eventually settle.

Do we know exactly were the African ancestors of OTL Madagascar came from? Also I heard that there were actually some inhabitants of the islands before the Austronesians arrived, were they Bantu?

 

[Revachah]

Do we know exactly were the African ancestors of OTL Madagascar came from? Also I heard that there were actually some inhabitants of the islands before the Austronesians arrived, were they Bantu?

Sabaki Bantu with residual cushitic and possible nilotic roots given a few lexical and genetic clues.

The vazimba refers to a mutlitude of people, it's more a symbolic term to mean those on the land previously. It's not one united group by any means.

I'm one to believe a previous Southeast Asian population existed on the island. More like Sama Bajau rather than the Banjar.

 

[ramones1986]

I'm one to believe a previous Southeast Asian population existed on the island. More like Sama Bajau rather than the Banjar.

I don't know about such hypothesis honestly.

 

[Revachah]

I don't know about such hypothesis honestly.

Oceanic Migration: Paths, Sequence, Timing and Range of Prehistoric Migration in the Pacific and Indian Oceans
by Charles E. M. Pearce and F. M. Pearce

Talks about it

He basically talks about the very long and drawn out process of expansion from the Moluccas through the Pacific and Indian Ocean.

Very good read, I don't agree with something's but overall excellently written.

 

[Gloss]

Sabaki Bantu with residual cushitic and possible nilotic roots given a few lexical and genetic clues.

The vazimba refers to a mutlitude of people, it's more a symbolic term to mean those on the land previously. It's not one united group by any means.

I'm one to believe a previous Southeast Asian population existed on the island. More like Sama Bajau rather than the Banjar.

If they came from so far North I imagine that their migration to the area could happen a bit latter during expansion of Arab naval activity, it seems to me you would end up with an early islamic madagascar.

 

[Revachah]

If they came from so far North I imagine that their migration to the area could happen a bit latter during expansion of Arab naval activity, it seems to me you would end up with an early islamic madagascar.

Arab and middle Eastern exploration of the island occurred before islamification.

The spice trade and Indian Ocean slave trade is much older than Islam, the people's would arguably be Shirazi Africans either of mixed racial or cultural roots.

 

[samcster94]

How late do you want them to not settle it??? The latest any landmass of any notable size wasn't settled by humans was New Zealand.