What if the conspirators get Andrew Johnson too?

[W.W.A.F.T.]

I realise that this might be an old question (sorry if it is ), but I'm curious to know what comes of removing Johnson? who ends up taking over? how does this change reconstruction? and by extension of these how are the United States likely to change?

 

[Alternatehistoryguy47]

The person that takes over after Johnson is the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, which would be Lafayette S. Foster. I suspect that Reconstruction would be very different, perhaps harsher on the south due to Foster possibly allowing himself to be influenced by President Lincoln's former advisors (or anybody else he might take on). The United States would probably be roughly about the same, although the south might be a bit more reactionary than OTL.

 

[Keenir]

The person that takes over after Johnson is the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, which would be Lafayette S. Foster.

then why did the would-be assassins plan to kill Lincoln, Johnson, and Seward? why not Lincoln, Johnson, and Foster?

just wondering.

 

[Space Oddity]

Because they were idiots. The Booth conspiracy was essentially comprised of the classic assassin types--marginal loners and cranks.

 

[W.W.A.F.T.]

all right, interesting enough. although at the time there was no clearly defined order of succession beyond the vice president (at least if memory serves that is), and in the modern succession, the speaker of the house comes before the president pro tempore, so its possible that there might be something of a power struggle over who actually is next in line.

also, what do we know about what kind of leader mr. foster was?

 

[Derek Jackson]

The relevant succession law was passed in the 1790s, it provided for the Senate President Pro Tem to suceed and for a new election for a full four year term.

I still think that the summer of 1865 was a time when the old ruling class in the South could have been destroyed and Civil rights of former slaves made sustainable by land redistribution

 

[Mikestone8]

then why did the would-be assassins plan to kill Lincoln, Johnson, and Seward? why not Lincoln, Johnson, and Foster?

just wondering.

Interesting question. Is it conceivable that they just didn't know about Foster (chosen in March by a special session of the Senate) and thought that a double murder would leave the Presidency vacant? I don't know how much publicity the special session got.

On that assumption, the attempt on Seward makes sense, as it would be his duty to notify the states of the double vacancy, and instruct them to schedule a new election of President and Vice President for next November. In reality, though, I suspect that a message from the Chief Clerk would be accepted if the SoS and his Assistant were dead.

That's the other big issue. Under 1865 law, the double vacancy triggers a new election, with the POTUS and VP taking office in March 1866. So, unless/until another double vacancy resets the calendar, Presidential elections will now be in 1865, 1869, 1873, 1877 ---. Thus there will be no correspondence between Presidential and Congressional elections, and all Congressional ones will be in a sense "mid-term".

Possible butterflies are innumberable, but if WW1 still comes on schedule, it could make a dfference that 1917, not 1916, is the election year. Possibly a decison on entering the war is postponed till late '17 or even sometime in 1918.

 

[W.W.A.F.T.]

wow, so a new election schedule is huge! and it seems that foster would only have a few months in office.

still, do we know if he was likely to push on civil rights, or go easy on the planters? And, who now is likely to win the emergency election?

 

[Mikestone8]

wow, so a new election schedule is huge! and it seems that foster would only have a few months in office.

still, do we know if he was likely to push on civil rights, or go easy on the planters?

Why not both? Many people did not see the two as imcompatible. Horace Greeley, for a famous example, spoke of "universal amnesty and impartial suffrage", and Senator William M Stewart of Nevada introduced legislation of a similar spirit in 1866.

Regarding Foster, he seems to have been over on the moderate to conservative side of the Republican Party, so there won't be anything really radical, but that wouldn't necessarily exclude measures like the enfranchisement of Coloured Union soldiers, or a requirement that any literacy or other tests for voters must apply to whites as well as blacks. About the same as might be expected from Lincoln had he lived.

And, who now is likely to win the emergency election?

It will certainly be a big name. In this situation, all will be looking for a figure who commands public confidence.

If Grant is still alive, then he gets it for sure. If not, then probably Sherman. I know Sherman wasn't keen on politics, but in a situation like this, he would probably feel obliged to run, if only to stop some weirdo like Butler from getting it.

Small point. Whoever it is needn't necessarily wait for the election. There is no constitutional requirement that the President of the Senate be himself a Senator, so that body could at any time choose Grant (or failing him Sherman) as President Pro-tem, and have Foster step down in his favour. In practice, they would probably wait until after the party nominations had been made. Iirc, Foster's later career was mainly as a judge, so he is probably rewarded for his co-operation by giving him the next Supreme Court vacancy.

 

[W.W.A.F.T.]

ok, I agree with you on the big name bit, however, general grant is still alive and kicking, as is sherman, but they're still tied up in ending the war. the names that came to me were maclellan and possibly seward (I seem to recall though that the people didn't like seward that much though).

 

[Chengar Qordath]

ok, I agree with you on the big name bit, however, general grant is still alive and kicking, as is sherman, but they're still tied up in ending the war. the names that came to me were maclellan and possibly seward (I seem to recall though that the people didn't like seward that much though).

By the OTL assassination, the war was already effectively over; Grant's already gotten Lee's surrender, and Sherman is in the process of negotiating Johnston's. Finishing up the war won't take nearly long enough to stop either from running for office.