What if no humans

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
This is inspired a bit by the Long Earth series of novels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Earth

If humans had never evolved what species would would be found on earth?
For simplicity's sake, let us start with the Americas.
I know that many expert's place human hunting as the main cause of the ice age megafauna extinctions, but does that mean climate played no role? Would the exact same fauna , be found today in the America's that were there when the first humans arrived?
 
Prairie dogs evolve sentience. Vast subterranean cities. Networks of interconnected tunnels stretching for hundreds of miles. Teeming swarms of ground squirrels armed to the teeth with cutting-edge nuclear weaponry, laser cannon, and tracked armor, comprising phalanx after phalanx of pure rodential warrior ethos, only to vanish underground the first time a hawk flies by overhead.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
On a more realistic note;)
I would imagine some species like passenger pigeons and Carolina parakeets would be a given, but would say mastodons or dire wolves still be around? Would a well-educated cross-reality visitor from our reality think that he's traveled back in time to the Pleistocene.
 
Probably the next lowest thing on the food chain, assuming you're asking what'd evolve into sentience. What species would be absolutely hard pressed to evolve in order to not be eaten out of existence by another species, other than humans? Birds can fly, wild dogs had packs, big cats had long sharp teeth...what did humanity have? Nothing, so they hid in trees.
 
Probably the next lowest thing on the food chain, assuming you're asking what'd evolve into sentience. What species would be absolutely hard pressed to evolve in order to not be eaten out of existence by another species, other than humans? Birds can fly, wild dogs had packs, big cats had long sharp teeth...what did humanity have? Nothing, so they hid in trees.

What? Humanity had endurance and tool use. Our early ancestors were effectively Chimps that could run better. Chimps are dangerous as all heck. Nasty biting teeth, strong muscles, etc. A chimp vs. a wolf probably goes to the chimp.
 
...so if Humans hadn't evolved, we'd all be on the Planet of the Apes? Not quite sure where you're taking that notion, Beedok.
 
...so if Humans hadn't evolved, we'd all be on the Planet of the Apes? Not quite sure where you're taking that notion, Beedok.

I don't have an answer for the question, I just wanted to point out that humanity had plenty going for it besides our brains. We lost the other things because brains are a better investment. Now as for a world without humans, it would probably be rather similar to the world of the last interglacial period, just without humans. A few species that died out end holocene might be gone, but we don't have a clear enough understanding of events to say which would live and which would die.
 
On a more realistic note;)
I would imagine some species like passenger pigeons and Carolina parakeets would be a given, but would say mastodons or dire wolves still be around? Would a well-educated cross-reality visitor from our reality think that he's traveled back in time to the Pleistocene.
Cattle would be replaced by aurochs. Dodos would be partying on Mauritius. Mastodons may survive, but the rapid climate change would mean that wooly mammoths are most likely gone. Any domestic animals are now their wild counterparts. Kudzu is restricted to Japan. Wheat does not exist. Wild corn and other crops vary wildly is size, shape, and color, as opposed to the uniform crop fields we see today. The world is filled to the brim with oil.
 
What? Humanity had endurance and tool use. Our early ancestors were effectively Chimps that could run better. Chimps are dangerous as all heck. Nasty biting teeth, strong muscles, etc. A chimp vs. a wolf probably goes to the chimp.

Not to mention one of the best combination of senses in the entire animal kingdom.

As for the question, I doubt whether mammoths would have survived widely in the Americas for long, at least the big kind and certainly not the hairy ones. You might see smaller versions running a round in the forests of North America though. As to the rest, don't really know.

The treatedt likelyhood to evolve sentience after us would be... Eh honestly I have nothing. It was a combination of factors that really don't exist other than primates that allowed us to develop technology. I.e. the species must live on dry land, have arms or some similar instrument (wings or tails do not count), etc. without humans there likely wouldn't be any technology on Earth.

But I doubt anyone would mistake it for the past, at least not after so e careful study.
 
We don't know if sentience has evolved before. If there were a species which reached neolithic tech 10 million years ago we'd likely have little record and even less chance of finding any. 50 million and there'd be nothing.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
Probably the next lowest thing on the food chain, assuming you're asking what'd evolve into sentience. What species would be absolutely hard pressed to evolve in order to not be eaten out of existence by another species, other than humans? Birds can fly, wild dogs had packs, big cats had long sharp teeth...what did humanity have? Nothing, so they hid in trees.

I just meant what ice-age megafauna would still be around. One if the central plot points of the book series I linked to in the first post is that all the parallel earths that humans find do not have any native humans,The people find North Americas that are full of mammoths, saber-tooth tigers , etc.
 
I should think there'd be *some* of the vanished megafauna still, in the high latitudes. There might be some descendents adapted to a warmer climate, too.

It would be interesting to see how a larger number of plant eating species altered the Americas' plant cover.

edit: rather late, I remembered there's been a thread rather similar. I copied one part, I think posted by boredatwork:

Quote
wolves, foxes, raccoons, octopi, gorrillas, ravens, rats, dolphins, orca, sea otters, river otters, beavers.

All seem to have one or more of social/pack behavior, tool use, learning ability, and adaptability.

Any one of them could be the source of a new sentient or semi-sentient species.

Sans humanity, it seems reasonable to presume that some of the human-extincted megafauna survives (the Mammoths, the giant sloth, the european and north american lions) and some other animals never evolve:

Modern cattle, modern dogs, chickens, modern pigs (vs wild boars), and horses are all creations of humanity.

Similarly wheat, corn, and rice - would not be around.

The climate would likely be colder and more variable (evidence seems to indicate that the discovery of agriculture and conversion of large swathes of natural terrain for farming use altered the climate in early and prehistory).

No humanity = no boats.

The implications of this are pretty huge - much more abundant fish, few or no 'alien' species issues, the lack of engineering efforts to maintain navigable channels means that many river deltas would be unrecognizable to us.

No humanity = no farming = no overgrazing of goats => no or much smaller sahara desert?

flatter terrain as well in many parts of the world. No humanity = no cities = no ruins to be covered over by dirt and form mounds.

much fewer 'shooting stars' a decent number of what we see as shooting stars are actually bit of flotsam and junk from various space programs burning up in the higher atmosphere as their orbits decay.

Endquote

 
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To cover the topic of a civilization of advanced Octopae and the like:
There is nothing in evolution that necessitates sentience or advanced tool making or innovation or anything that is the "human spark". Nor, even if there are those elements, does evolution dictate itself to make them go further or towards some end goal of the warp drive or however you'd like to frame it. We are not the end goal of evolution. Our path is not the end goal of evolution. We are an aberration; one of infinite possibilities, a portion of which we find in every species besides ourselves.
 
Actually since you mention octopi they would be the most likely culprit in my mind for developing a tech-using, tool based civilization. They have the right kind of setup for manipulating objects with a pretty substantial level of fine dexterity and are surprisingly intelligent. In an underwater environment stone tools would be a definite possibility since those don't require the use of heat to craft or maintain. Metalworking might even be possible if they could figure out how to use underwater vents as furnaces.

If you get a strain of octopus which is large and smart enough to do all that then some kind of organized aquaculture would be well within the realm of possibility. From there things get interesting and complicated since you would be dealing with a civilization based on a completely different set of assumptions compared to the human experience. Who knows what you would end up with if all of the above happened, the only thing I can be sure of is the best word to describe it would be alien.
 
Actually since you mention octopi they would be the most likely culprit in my mind for developing a tech-using, tool based civilization. They have the right kind of setup for manipulating objects with a pretty substantial level of fine dexterity and are surprisingly intelligent. In an underwater environment stone tools would be a definite possibility since those don't require the use of heat to craft or maintain. Metalworking might even be possible if they could figure out how to use underwater vents as furnaces.

If you get a strain of octopus which is large and smart enough to do all that then some kind of organized aquaculture would be well within the realm of possibility. From there things get interesting and complicated since you would be dealing with a civilization based on a completely different set of assumptions compared to the human experience. Who knows what you would end up with if all of the above happened, the only thing I can be sure of is the best word to describe it would be alien.
But octopi have a breed-once-LOTS-then-die reproductive pattern, so transmitting culture between the generations would be difficult...
 
Prairie dogs evolve sentience. Vast subterranean cities. Networks of interconnected tunnels stretching for hundreds of miles. Teeming swarms of ground squirrels armed to the teeth with cutting-edge nuclear weaponry, laser cannon, and tracked armor, comprising phalanx after phalanx of pure rodential warrior ethos, only to vanish underground the first time a hawk flies by overhead.

Like this?
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives/may2001/SaskatchewanArmy.htm
 
On a more realistic note;)
I would imagine some species like passenger pigeons and Carolina parakeets would be a given, but would say mastodons or dire wolves still be around? Would a well-educated cross-reality visitor from our reality think that he's traveled back in time to the Pleistocene.

Yes. Most of those species survived earlier interglacials. Theydve survived into this one if it werent for humans, almost certainly.
 
We don't know if sentience has evolved before. If there were a species which reached neolithic tech 10 million years ago we'd likely have little record and even less chance of finding any. 50 million and there'd be nothing.

There are Ants and Termites..
 
There are Ants and Termites..
:confused:

Are you claiming that they are sentient, or that they would somehoe preserve evidence of a neolithic society?

Also I really don't like this octopus and other cephalopod obsession people have. They're probably the top choice for next sentience . . . after you wipe out all mammals, all birds, and about half of the reptiles.:rolleyes:

They outsmart fish, but that's not exactly hard. Heck I think ants stumbling into metal working is about as likely as octopus sapience.
 
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