What if Europe and Maritime Southeast Asia Switched Fates?

[DoomOfVolantis]

The East-West switch is a very common trope in the alternate history genre. Oftentimes people who dabble in this scenario switch the fates of Han Dynasty China and the Roman Empire. Having a fractured China take place of Europe while Having an united but Stagnant Roman Empire take place of china. Unfortunately, many people dismiss the effects of geography on culture and politics when coming up with scenarios like this. Rome and China ended up like this because of their geographical location.

But there is another possibility I have never seen talked about. What if Europe and Nusantara, also known as Maritime Southeast Asia, switched places? The two regions have many things in common:

●Europe is a peninsula of peninsulas while Nusantara is a massive Archipelago, both situations breeding a strong naval tradition that encourages exploration and trade.
●Both have cultures that defined civilization for them. Greeks and Rome for Europe and Srivijaya and Majapahit for Nusantara.
●Both came to be dominated by a foreign religion that encouraged state building. Christianity in Europe and Islam in Nusantara.
●Europe was invaded by Indo-Europeans from Central Asia/Caucasus and their languages are spoken by the majority. Nusantara was invaded by Austronesians from Taiwan and their languages are spoken by the majority.

And while Nusantaras History lacks behind Europe on these points by a couple of centuries, the similarities are, I find, uncanny.

So what If they switched fates? What would be the effects of such a change in world history have on the rest of the world? And finally, how could this happen?

 

[Kriegdämmerung]

I think the big challenge you'll have hear is encouraging Nusantaran polities to go to Europe. Europe came for spices, tea, porcelain, etc., which led to most of the East running a net positive in trade for centuries. But when it comes to what Europe has, to encourage repeated trade, there...doesn't seem to be a lot that doesn't exist closer by. The biggest thing that comes to mind is coal, and Kalimantan/Borneo has that in spades.

So Europe would need to have some commodity that China/India/the Middle East do not, there need to be barriers to overland travel which means Nusantara can't get these goods outright from the usual methods, and have them decide that sailing to Europe is the best angle.

Open to thoughts, of course.

 

[DoomOfVolantis]

I think the big challenge you'll have hear is encouraging Nusantaran polities to go to Europe. Europe came for spices, tea, porcelain, etc., which led to most of the East running a net positive in trade for centuries. But when it comes to what Europe has, to encourage repeated trade, there...doesn't seem to be a lot that doesn't exist closer by. The biggest thing that comes to mind is coal, and Kalimantan/Borneo has that in spades.

So Europe would need to have some commodity that China/India/the Middle East do not, there need to be barriers to overland travel which means Nusantara can't get these goods outright from the usual methods, and have them decide that sailing to Europe is the best angle.

Open to thoughts, of course.

This is a really good point. Maybe Glass might become a trade good? Although I think Arabs and Persians and later Ottomans had the medieval monopoly at hand in that.
Or maybe Saltpeter, Ammonia, Concrete or similar materials may become trade goods. I am unsure when China discovered them. Perhaps pairing this idea with Rome/China swapped may work too.

This is a really good point. One I did not think of.

 

[Workable Goblin]

This is a really good point. Maybe Glass might become a trade good?

It was, actually! Well, in pre-medieval times, anyway; Roman glassware was an important export for them. Gold and silver were also produced in some abundance by Europe (or, like the cultures you name, Europeans were located to be intermediaries between production sources and Southeast Asia), which of course was why there was a Silk Road to begin with.

Rome and China ended up like this because of their geographical location.

I mean, this is not really clear. Southern China is often underestimated in terms of its ruggedness and other factors (e.g., presence of tropical disease) that make it definitely non-trivial to control from the North China Plain, and conversely the Mediterranean provided quite an effective means of binding together larger territories (or, in the longer run, the Northern European Plain could have been a major center). Geography was a factor, certainly, but I don't think it's sufficient by itself to explain the differences in political evolution between the two regions.

 

[DoomOfVolantis]

It was, actually! Well, in pre-medieval times, anyway; Roman glassware was an important export for them. Gold and silver were also produced in some
I mean, this is not really clear. Southern China is often underestimated in terms of its ruggedness and other factors (e.g., presence of tropical disease) that make it definitely non-trivial to control from the North China Plain, and conversely the Mediterranean provided quite an effective means of binding together larger territories (or, in the longer run, the Northern European Plain could have been a major center). Geography was a factor, certainly, but I don't think it's sufficient by itself to explain the differences in political evolution between the two regions.

You are not wrong but the way i see it, Rome was based around Mediterranean Basin while China was more of a land based Empire. This made Romans more trade open so ideas such as christianity were more easily propagated throughouth the empire whereas most folk sects in china stayed put where they were even if they had universalist salvationist ideas. Even Islam after penetrating Tang dynasty stayed as a minority concanterated in Huixia

Chinese core was also relatively more flat then what rome had so when Rome fell, it never united again unlike china who eventually reunited again and again and again, making the cultures more homogenous compared to Rome.

 

[Elfwine]

I think it wasn't just geography, but there are only so many "this got in the way, and that got in the way, and this other thing got in the way" before there are too many factors to overcome.

So far as general switching fates, there's also where Europe is relative to all the stuff related to the steppe (for good and ill) vs. anywhere else in that regard. Maritime southeast Asia sounds like it might hypothetically resemble some parts of OTL Europe, but not all of what made Europe develop as it did.