What if Dune popularized role-playing games?

[Strategos' Risk]

Dungeons and Dragons, of course, was heavily based on Tolkien's work (though the magic system is Vancian...), as well as "the works of Robert E. Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs, A. Merritt, H. P. Lovecraft, Fritz Leiber, L. Sprague de Camp, Fletcher Pratt, Roger Zelazny, and Michael Moorcock." But what if the first big tabletop pen-and-paper game of the 20th century was based on Dune and the works of Frank Herbert instead? The first novel came out nine years before D&D did, so such a hypothetical game would fit the '70s timeline.

First off, what would it look like? Would it even have character classes similar to D&D? (I think it can, but it depends if the creators would even think of it that way. They probably would, archetypes are universal in fiction.) The races would map more closely to the houses, I suppose, with groups such as the Bene Tleilax or the Ixians less human-like than the others.

Second, how would it influence the very medium of RPGs? A sci-fi universe, albeit a fantasy-like and neo-medieval one, kickstarting tabletop games would be quite different. As alien to imagine as the in-universe media world of Watchmen, where pirate comics rule over superhero comics. Also, there have been RPG adaptations of Dune, I'm sure, but none seem particularly noteworthy, even compared to other licensed works such as WEG's Star Wars RPG from the '80s. It seems like RPGs inspired by Dune, such as Warhammer 40,000 and the hugely underrated Fading Suns universe, are more prevalent OTL than an actual Dune RPG. It looks like the rights are currently with... Modiphius Entertainment? Seems like they're doing a slick job with it, and that they handle many other licenses as well, but I'm not sure if the game is particularly noteworthy in the world of RPGs compared to, say, Starfinder or Starjammer.

Finally, I should mention that just like D&D is not a 1:1 adaptation of LoTR, at least not since 1st Ed. anyhow, a hypothetical Dune-inspired RPG would probably be inspired by all sorts of other sci-fi, from Foundation to uh the Lensman series to Heinlein.

Ah, dammit, such a work already exists, doesn't it? Traveller is the 1970s Dune-inspired space RPG, isn't it? Now that's a thought: what if Games Workshop really did jumpstart the RPG genre?

Alternatively: What if Gormenghast popularized RPGs?

See also: what if RPGs were invented in premodern times?

What if Role-Playing Games were invented in premodern times?

Interesting question and theory... This is Braunstein btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunstein_(game) So if this discussion's narrative is accurate, what prior cultures could have conceivably invented RPGs? The few literate Vikings during the cold winter months, who wanted to create...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[dfl_90]

Fortunately or unfortunately, Tolkien and to a lesser extent Howard provided a really good set of narrative devices to utilize in tabletop games and video games. That includes groups of heroes, unique backgrounds and skillsets, compartmentalized adventures, and so on.

I'll readily admit I'm not an expert on the Dune franchise, only having a passing familiarity with its overall narrative. From what I know, Dune's plot and universe hinge pretty heavily on a chosen one narrative, combined with a sort of esoteric politics. Neither one of those lends itself particularly well to the sort of multiplayer tabletop format that D&D popularized. A better angle might simply be to create a Dune Expanded Universe and just lightly utilize the setting, but at that point I begin to wonder whether it would be able to compete with more palatable peer franchises such as Star Wars, which has a narrative much more suited to D&D style multiplayer adventuring. Much like you postulated, the Dune roleplaying game may warp into something only tangentially related to Dune itself, such as utilizing spice as a currency, having sandworm monsters, using personal shields as a means of handwaving guns, and so on, not too unlike how D&D has evolved away from its LotR and Conan influences in many ways.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

As an aside, I wonder if Dune (and much less often, Gormenghast) is frequently compared to LoTR because they're massive fictional epics that spend an immense amount of effort world-building a convincingly alien universe. And not because they're equally accessible for adventuring or for action. Dune is in many ways a much more weirder setting and perhaps less intuitive to imagine people going on RPG quests in. Not even just compared to LoTR, but compared to anything from other sci-fi, from Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon pulp to the galaxy that is Star Trek. Actually if we were to imagine a Dune-inspired RPG appearing around the same way D&D did, it take a lot of beats from both, and not Star Wars, which doesn't exist until 1977. So maybe like Dune, such a game would be about the machinations and messiahs of far future space aristocrats, but character parties would still be akin to "away teams" serving noble houses, and there would be lasgun-totting alien princesses.

(Now I'm imagining what if D&D was inspired by some less-than-adventurer-accessible sci-fi, like say A Wizard of Earthsea!)

 

[CaptainCalvert]

Dungeons and Dragons, of course, was heavily based on Tolkien's work (though the magic system is Vancian...), as well as "the works of Robert E. Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs, A. Merritt, H. P. Lovecraft, Fritz Leiber, L. Sprague de Camp, Fletcher Pratt, Roger Zelazny, and Michael Moorcock." But what if the first big tabletop pen-and-paper game of the 20th century was based on Dune and the works of Frank Herbert instead? The first novel came out nine years before D&D did, so such a hypothetical game would fit the '70s timeline.

First off, what would it look like? Would it even have character classes similar to D&D? (I think it can, but it depends if the creators would even think of it that way. They probably would, archetypes are universal in fiction.) The races would map more closely to the houses, I suppose, with groups such as the Bene Tleilax or the Ixians less human-like than the others.

Second, how would it influence the very medium of RPGs? A sci-fi universe, albeit a fantasy-like and neo-medieval one, kickstarting tabletop games would be quite different. As alien to imagine as the in-universe media world of Watchmen, where pirate comics rule over superhero comics. Also, there have been RPG adaptations of Dune, I'm sure, but none seem particularly noteworthy, even compared to other licensed works such as WEG's Star Wars RPG from the '80s. It seems like RPGs inspired by Dune, such as Warhammer 40,000 and the hugely underrated Fading Suns universe, are more prevalent OTL than an actual Dune RPG. It looks like the rights are currently with... Modiphius Entertainment? Seems like they're doing a slick job with it, and that they handle many other licenses as well, but I'm not sure if the game is particularly noteworthy in the world of RPGs compared to, say, Starfinder or Starjammer.

Finally, I should mention that just like D&D is not a 1:1 adaptation of LoTR, at least not since 1st Ed. anyhow, a hypothetical Dune-inspired RPG would probably be inspired by all sorts of other sci-fi, from Foundation to uh the Lensman series to Heinlein.

Ah, dammit, such a work already exists, doesn't it? Traveller is the 1970s Dune-inspired space RPG, isn't it? Now that's a thought: what if Games Workshop really did jumpstart the RPG genre?

Alternatively: What if Gormenghast popularized RPGs?

See also: what if RPGs were invented in premodern times?

What if Role-Playing Games were invented in premodern times?

Interesting question and theory... This is Braunstein btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunstein_(game) So if this discussion's narrative is accurate, what prior cultures could have conceivably invented RPGs? The few literate Vikings during the cold winter months, who wanted to create...

www.alternatehistory.com

Maybe have a look at xkcd.com's take on the Voynich manuscript?

D&D may have been influenced in part by Lord of the Rings, but this was really a story of world war influenced by key people in the right place at the right time, which is not a D& D thing.
The treasure grabbing, heroic fighting and monsters is surely much more in line with sagas, Hollywood films, Moorcock, Conan and the like and Fritz Lieber's work as well as Jack Vance's work.

 

[DougM]

D&D was basically a result of and an outgrowth from a group wanting to take a medieval war gaming system and simulate fantasy war gaming.
I would mnt be hard to get them interested in a war game with the trappings of a science fiction setting with wearing houses or whatever. In a war this is what Battletech turned into with warfare between the great houses.

But I doubt a sci fi game would take off like fantasy did. Fantasy is just a better setting in general for “heroic adventure“ This is why fantasy games alwas do better the sci fi. There have been a ton of TTRPGs over the last 45 or so years and with very few exceptions most only last for a little while then fad away. But in general Fantasy games just are more popular.
We have Traveller for sci fi. We have Cyberpunk for well.. cyberpunk punk, We have Shadowrun for fantasy/cyberpunk. And we have D&D and Pathfinder for fantasy. And if you want horror we have Call of Cathulu. Not sure what the current Superhero game is. Maybe Mutants and Masterminds? It used to be Champion/HeroSystem but that seams to have fadded away,
Over the years we have had many more games that have come and gone. Role master was a popular fantasy game system that was probably the most detailed fantasy rpg. We have also had RPGs of specific settings such as Marvel, And Star Trek and Star wars. And we have had more niche systems such as Post Apocalypse, or Pulp Fiction or Spy stories/secret agent and probably anything else you can think of. But fantasy alwas seamed the most dominant and the one that does not fade. And it isn’t the game system that makes it the most popular as the original D&D then the Basic and AD&D sysytems were drastically different. And version 3 and 4 and the current 5 were very different from each other and have next to nothing in common with the fisrt D&D other than a few terms and names.

So we have had plenty of non Fantasy games but they just never are a popular as fantasy.

 

[CaptainCalvert]

D&D was basically a result of and an outgrowth from a group wanting to take a medieval war gaming system and simulate fantasy war gaming.
I would mnt be hard to get them interested in a war game with the trappings of a science fiction setting with wearing houses or whatever. In a war this is what Battletech turned into with warfare between the great houses.

But I doubt a sci fi game would take off like fantasy did. Fantasy is just a better setting in general for “heroic adventure“ This is why fantasy games alwas do better the sci fi. There have been a ton of TTRPGs over the last 45 or so years and with very few exceptions most only last for a little while then fad away. But in general Fantasy games just are more popular.
We have Traveller for sci fi. We have Cyberpunk for well.. cyberpunk punk, We have Shadowrun for fantasy/cyberpunk. And we have D&D and Pathfinder for fantasy. And if you want horror we have Call of Cathulu. Not sure what the current Superhero game is. Maybe Mutants and Masterminds? It used to be Champion/HeroSystem but that seams to have fadded away,
Over the years we have had many more games that have come and gone. Role master was a popular fantasy game system that was probably the most detailed fantasy rpg. We have also had RPGs of specific settings such as Marvel, And Star Trek and Star wars. And we have had more niche systems such as Post Apocalypse, or Pulp Fiction or Spy stories/secret agent and probably anything else you can think of. But fantasy alwas seamed the most dominant and the one that does not fade. And it isn’t the game system that makes it the most popular as the original D&D then the Basic and AD&D sysytems were drastically different. And version 3 and 4 and the current 5 were very different from each other and have next to nothing in common with the fisrt D&D other than a few terms and names.

So we have had plenty of non Fantasy games but they just never are a popular as fantasy.

I think there's room for a good sci fi rpg, but D&D worked well enough and arrived before Star Wars created a popular appetite. A lot of early computer games were scifi themed (though Rogue was fantasy), while the wargamers were more easily directed to fantasy. And indeed in the UK, fantasy themed wargames and campaigns were being played before D&D was widely available by at least one wargames group.

While I kind of got Traveller, it and the other scifi games never quite worked, though in theory there was a lot to draw on for adventure, finding stuff, etc. But maybe fantasy is just baked into folklore and an easoer premise for ever increasing power, monsters, quests snd treasure.

 

[Evil Crusader]

I have read that the choice of Fantasy also was a deliberate way for the new genre to distance itself from its parent, Wargaming, whom the RPG genre represented a simplified and more accessible reaction to. Assuming that is true, for sci-fi to be popular you'd have to find another, slightly different, niche where they stay as 'complex' but more accessible. I think the experience of the Dune franchise really bring the point home, of how hard that balance can be to achieve; in fact, all modern RPG experience has flown towards a continued simplification of the experience and away from simulationism.

 

[DougM]

But the WAS sci fi games. Metamorphosis Alpha, Gamma World, Traveler, FTL #### (I forget the actual name), Cyberpunk, Star Trek the RPG, Teenagers from Outer space, Paranoia, Ringworld RPG, Rifts, and the lost goes on and on and on and on.
And let’s not forget TSR’s Star Frontier game. So TSR tried about 4 times itself to creat a sci fi game.

So you are only a couple years behind D&D with itself and in the case of Traveler it came out within months of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and “Basic D&D”. And let’s be honest. A D&D and the Basic sets are the games that ”made” D&D. Not the original games released pre 77.

So the people HAD the option for Sci Fi RPG. Heck Star Wars even came out in 77 so you would think that would have boosted the popularity of Traveler or other Sci Fi games through the roof, But it didn’t.
So there is nothing you can do to make Sci Fi the RPG of choice.

I hate to be nasty but. It is just not happening. I was there I know. I had most of those RPGs I played most of them. I had D&D when it was the pre A D&D stuff when the books were little digests and Elf was a class. I was part of a group that got several local libraries to allow RPG gaming every other week in the public rooms. At one point I had enough RPGs to fill 20+ linear feet of book shelves and I have friends that have more game systems than I ever owned.
And trust me.. nothing you are going to do will make Sci Fi the dominant RPG.

 

[Evil Crusader]

I hate to be nasty but. It is just not happening. I was there I know. I had most of those RPGs I played most of them. I had D&D when it was the pre A D&D stuff when the books were little digests and Elf was a class. I was part of a group that got several local libraries to allow RPG gaming every other week in the public rooms. At one point I had enough RPGs to fill 20+ linear feet of book shelves and I have friends that have more game systems than I ever owned.
And trust me.. nothing you are going to do will make Sci Fi the dominant RPG.

As a tangent, what do you think is the reason for this?

 

[CaptainCalvert]

I have read that the choice of Fantasy also was a deliberate way for the new genre to distance itself from its parent, Wargaming, whom the RPG genre represented a simplified and more accessible reaction to. Assuming that is true, for sci-fi to be popular you'd have to find another, slightly different, niche where they stay as 'complex' but more accessible. I think the experience of the Dune franchise really bring the point home, of how hard that balance can be to achieve; in fact, all modern RPG experience has flown towards a continued simplification of the experience and away from simulationism.

That may be true, but early RPGs tended to develop from wargaming which was most often historical.Knights and peasants (for Round Table era) or barbarian hordes (for most other roles) are readily adapted to fantasy applications by addition of a few rules to boost heroes or to accommodate fantasy creatures - eg elves with better archery skills, dragons based on elephants with catapult stats for breath weapons, and undead with negative effects on reaction rolls.
There were also moves to using individual skirmish type combat, in some of which individual units could become better. It's not a big step to actual rpgs from there.

But now to sci fi settings. There wasn't ready access to figures and armies (or historic battles and leaders for inspiration) like the ancient and medieval gamers had, so there's trouble getting a buzz about playing mass battles or recreating Alexander's conquests and then wondering how to run small encounters and then character development. I know figures aren't essential to RPGs but for mass battles and skirmishes they are, but for me it's the difficulty of having mass-appeal demand for figures, and having to develop new rule sets rather than adapt existing ones that were a barrier to mass adoption of scifi RPGs. Now? Probably less so.

 

[DougM]

The reason Danny can first was simple. As noted by others it was simply adding magic to the existing War Games that was set in a day and age with Knights and archers and what have you. So being as much western fantasy I simply medieval setting with magic and elves (yes I am over simplifying) it is easy to do a fantasy Wargame.
Once you get a fantasy Wargame it is easy to start giving your units “personality” and then doing smaller units and soon we are off to the races.

But note that the first D&D was released in 74, Basic D&D and A D&D which was the games that really took off came out in 77 as did Traveler. So it was not a LONG time between the first RPG and what was probably the biggest Sci Fi RPG Traveler (which still exists)
TSR published Boot Hill (a western game) in what. 75? And Metamorphoses Alpha (sci fi/mutants on a space ship) was I believe 76.
So we had a lot of options.

Now keep in mind that the most famous RPG is and was D&D it was talked about in the papera and on news shows (anyone remember the satanic panic?) and it shows up in movies (anyone remember what the kids were doing the night Eliot found ET?). And so on.
But D&D was not as dominate in the hobby as it is outside the hobby. There is a reason I have or had so many game sysytems I can’t remember them all. But what system is popular at any given moment is based on a few things.
1) Rules, rules advanced as the hobby learned things
2) Complexity or simplicity: this varies by time at some points more “realistic” complex systems are popular but as the hobby gains more participation simplicity becomes popular, but simplicity is more a benefit to new participants or casual gamers
3) Finish /editing of a product: a more refined product is often easier to play as its rules are easier to read and learn and it frankly just looks better,
4) Investment: it takes money to put out a product that gets into the sales channels and it cost to produce a product and artwork and better quality covers and such are expensive.
5). Trends /interests. This is the biggest factor. It varies by time what the most popular genre of gaming is. While at any given moment Fantasy is alwas popular it is not always the “hottest” genre. We have see post apocalypse and Post WW3 and Cyberpunk and even Western all have their moments in the sun, Oddly Sci fi as in Star Wars has not really been all that popular. But I will discus that below. At one point Shadowrun was huge. Shadowrun is a cyberpunk game in a world that magic is cyclical and comes back so we get a world where Cyberpunk meats Dungeons and Dragons, So you can have a Dwarf Gun bunny with an Elf decker/hacker a Human Wizard and an Ork Shaman. This world was combined (at least at one point) with a popular Fantasy game that was set in the same universe but at a previous cycle. These games were really popular and had a TON of Fiction books published set in the Shadowrun setting. At that point while I am not sure about relative sales I can tell you Shadowrun was definitely “hotter” in the hobby itself.

Now as to why I think Sci Fi has less popularity then Fantasy…
Think of generic Fantasy. What did you picture? A D&D or LoTR type setting? I will bet you did or at least you pictured something similar At least close enough that you could run it with a typical D&D or Pathfinder type TTRPG system.
Now picture Sci Fi. What did you picture? I bet if we asked 1000 people we would get a lot of variety. Star Trek and Star Wars, and Aliens and Terminator and Dr Who are all obvious and popular settings but there are plenty of other things that fall into Sci Fi, Heck Cyberpunk is Sci Fi. And this is the problem. We don’t have a common Sci Fi setting so you can’t have a common rule system for Sci Fi games. No rules ever made could handle Star Wars type game with its Dog fighting Star ships and magical space nights with swords and still handle Star Trek with its Space Navy and Teleportation and then the next week run a Dr Who style game.
So Sci Fi games are often very dependent on setting.
Early on we see many Sci Fi games. Metamorphosis Alpha was iirc set on a giant generation ship much like RAH’s Space Orphans (I think that was the name) with mutations and a strange world. Then we have Gamma World which was a post apocalypse version of Metamorphosis Alpha in a setting like what we see now with Fallout. We also had a similar system but without as much strangeness that I think was called he Monroe Project. TSR also put out Star Frontiers which was a Sci Fi system that was doomed because it did release with any useful star ship system and everyone wanted to play Star Wars as it was the popular Sci Fi at the time. Then we had Star Trek the RPG (and it’s little remembered related Starship Combat simulator) And of course we had Cyberpunk and Shadowrun. And I completely skipped Traveler which came out between Metamorphoses Alpha and Gamma World/Star Frontier iirc. That system is more Star Wars ish with small starships being available to players and a very large and diverse world but typically does not do the Star Wars space magic that makes Star Wars more Space Fantasy then Hard Sci Fi.

So it is this diversity that causes Sci Fi so many problems. As you could argue that Frankenstein, War of the Worlds, Independence day, Any number of Zombie Stories, Cyberpunk, Alien, Terminator, Star Wars, Star Trek, Fallout, Outland, Halo, the expanse, Black Hole, Back to the Future, Total Recal, Jurassic Park, Free Jake, Robocop, Oblivion, Stargate, Timecop, Event Horizon, The Fifth Element, Men in Black, The Andromeda Strain, Lost In Space, Battle Star Galactica, the Matrix, My Favorite Martian, The. Martian Chronicles, Riddick, Enders Game, I am Legend, Cowboys and Aliens, Looper, Blade Runner, and on and on,

So how are you going to get a single sci fi game that can be used for a large portion of the gamers to run a game in when most of the above has so little in common with each other? Vs 50-75% of Fantasy share similar concepts. Or at least close enough that one rule system can be made to work for most peoples games.

 

[BeardedHoplite]

Dune already gave us the Real-Time Strategy genre, wouldn't be fair to give them two whole genres of game

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Maybe the RPG field could be more diverse.

 

[Mark E.]

D&D worked because it was confined to a middle-aged setting and used magic from children's stories. Dune and other sci-fi settings wouldn't have the same potential for rules and would be less likely to succeed.

 

[DougM]

You CAN make a good rule system for pretty much any sci fi game you want. and in many cases they HAVE.
Star wars(2 completly different versions) , Star Trek, Traveler, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Paranoia, Teenagers from Outer-space, Dreampark, Fringeworthy, Gurps, Rifts, Robot Warriors, Mech Warriors, Mekton, (the previous two not even counted on Wikipedia) Star-frontiers, and Gamma World. are just SOME of the Sci Fi TTRPGs i have played. And i am NOT that big into gaming as far as different sysytems go. I know a lot of folks that have played and or own more games then I have.

And TTRPG was very diverse. i personally have owned at least 50 differentTTRPG game systems and oess the a 1/4 of those were/are Fantasy. And i have a buddy that has a office/library that is about 14’ x 12’ with floor to ceiling book cases on two walls that are FULL if different TTRPGs.
Wikipedia lists 162 different Sci Fi RPGs. Diversity is not the problem. (Note i personally can think of at least three Sci fi TTRPG that are not in that 162, so that 162 is actually low)

So there has been tons of Sci Fi TTRPGs and even more non Fantasy TTRPGs. If you consider spy/Agent, Superhero, post appocolyse, post ww3, and all the other genres that are neither Sci Fi nor Fantasy.

The problem is that all these other games represent genres that are less common. Once again D&D is fantasy and pretty generic Fantasy at that. if you pick up any random Fantasy book published prior to say 2010 odds are you can run a similarly flavored TTRPG using a slightly tweaked D&D rule system. This is why D&D was the popular system for decades. other ”better” fantasy systems or pretty much all non fantasy systems just are not as diverse.
Traveller is perhaps the most diverse or “stand” Sci Fi system. And other long running system such as Hero System, Mutants and master minds are generic in there area (in this case Super Hero games) And Gurps is a generic system.

The Problem is that the fame mechanics of Sci Fi is very dependent on what sci fi you want to represent. So you cant only represent a narrow focus of sci fi with any given sysytem,

 

[Thisisnotausername]

Think of generic Fantasy. What did you picture? A D&D or LoTR type setting? I will bet you did or at least you pictured something similar At least close enough that you could run it with a typical D&D or Pathfinder type TTRPG system.
Now picture Sci Fi. What did you picture? I bet if we asked 1000 people we would get a lot of variety. Star Trek and Star Wars, and Aliens and Terminator and Dr Who are all obvious and popular settings but there are plenty of other things that fall into Sci Fi, Heck Cyberpunk is Sci Fi. And this is the problem. We don’t have a common Sci Fi setting so you can’t have a common rule system for Sci Fi games. No rules ever made could handle Star Wars type game with its Dog fighting Star ships and magical space nights with swords and still handle Star Trek with its Space Navy and Teleportation and then the next week run a Dr Who style game.

I think you underestimate how diverse fantasy is and overestimate how diverse sci-fi is. Like, look at the three examples you give of obviously incompatible sci-fi franchises, Star Wars, Star Trek, and Doctor Who. Are they so different? All take place in expansive soft sci-fi universes in which aliens, robots, psychics, and FTL travel are very common. It does not seem like it would be that hard to come up with a system that would allow you to roleplay Han and Chewie getting busted by the Enterprise for smuggling one week and the Doctor running into Kirk and Spock on one of the multiple occasions they travelled back in time to 20th century Earth the next (indeed, TOS's season 2 finale, "Assignment: Earth," is basically just a crossover with what would qualify as a brazen rip-off of early Pertwee-era Doctor Who if it hadn't been made two years prior to the start of Pertwee's run). Sure, the three have substantially different settings and differences in their assumptions about technology and what the protagonists will be doing, but we can say the same thing about the settings, magic systems, and genre conventions of different fantasy works as well--just think of how much work you'd need to do to get D&D to closely emulate even a popular, mainstream work of quasi-medieval fantasy like The Lord of the Rings, A Song of Ice and Fire, or The Wheel of Time. If every piece of fantasy with swords and wizards in it is similar enough to be emulated by one system, why not every piece of science fiction with robots and spaceships?

 

[DougM]

From a taming system they ARE that different.
It is easy to remove or add A race in D&D and to limit what spells are available. with the basic mechanics working the same,
But the difference needed in the rules for your 3 examples are pretty extreme. The way blasters and shields and light sabres and landspeaders work requires one set of game mechanics as well as all the equipment. being written up. Where as Phasers, Disrupters Transportsers and such require different mechanics and different write ups. And the Rules needed to make Xwings and tie fighter's work vs Constitution Class Heavy Cruisers and Klingon D-7s or Romulan Bird of Prey is drastic. Star wars had WW2 fighter combat with a sort of WW2 navale battle with ships and fighters but the heros mostly where in fighters. Star Trek needed navel ships.
And good luck working out a rule for time travel to keep you heros in Dr Who from going back and messing with the timeline in the game.

And by the Way Star Teck and Star wars are tow of the CLOSER examples.
Try Alien with its military hardware and is sleep pods and its over powered aliens and its artificial people.
Or Blade Runners and is replicants as its guns and flying cars
Or try some of the father out stuff.
BTW i have a library with probably 30 feet of TTRPGs and I tossed over half my collection a few years back. dating as far back as the digest printings of the First D&D pre 1977. I also have over 2500 Sci Fi and Fantasy novals. And i dont want yo think how much Amazon has gotten out of my for Kindle books, I read LOTR in the summer between my 3rd and 4th grades and i am on my third Hobbit book and my second Lord of the Rings. I read all of RAH youth books as a kid and all his adult books soon thereafter. I have read Sci Fi and Fantasy books dating hack over a hundred years and farther then that if you Count Verne and HG Wells. So I am thinking that i have a pretty good idea about the diversity of Sci Fi and Fantasy books and movies as well as having been there and done that with TTRPG.
Oh.. Did i mention I actually worked in a Hobby shop and sold TTRPGs in the late 80s? Oh and i rand the RPG section and did the ordering. I also have been to a few conventions over the years and i actually knew a guy that wrote and published his own TTRPGs (actually he published i belive three different games for three different “universes” all of which were Sci Fi. And i started DM about 1981 (A D&D) and still run a D&D (5e) game right Now. And i have spent multiple years running Shadowrun games, Fantasy Hero Games, Champions Games, Street Level Hero Games. as well as many other game. systems that i only ran for less then a year.

So i think i have a pretty good idea what happened and why and how hard making a sci fi game that would be universal enough to be the most popular game for multiple versions over multiple years or decades. Note Traveler and Gamma World are two examples of short term games i have run as is Rolemaster. Off hand i would guess I have run 15 to 25 different systems not counting all the different additions of those systems and i played in a lot more then that.

Fantasy is bad enough. As frankly D&D has its issues. It is just plan bad at low magic or low fantasy type games. It can be made to work sort of but not well. But sci fi is worse.

So i am pretty well versed with this particular topic. You could say i am pretty much the target for this POD.