what if Archimedes survived the sack of Syracuse?

[Krishna123]

Hi all, just watching Ancient Impossible on the boob tube and I saw an recreation of his steam cannon used during the Roman Siege of his city. The Copper steam vessel and attached tube/barrel (heated by an open fire) propelled the cannon ball 150 feet and totaled an old wooden speed boat. (look it up it was an awesome clip)

My discussion point and maybe something else is what if during the sack Archimedes had fallen asleep or maybe just didn't argue with the Roman troops sacking the city and survived to be taken into Roman custody?
I know that most likely he would be paraded around Rome at social events or made to make toys for rich senators etc,
In my idea they make him refine and develop his steam cannon and maybe steam tech in the form of a useful early form (if used as propaganda tool in the many temples of Rome or public spaces the tech would develop and spread) and considering his death ray using concentrated sun light optics such as (using stolen Carthaginian tech) glasses or telescopes etc might be possible as a starting point? plus all the other stuff he is already credited with. Not out of the realms of possibilities that his lost works are so widely disseminated that they survive or at least massively quoted in the various surviving military and other engineering treaties of OTL today of course that is if the Roman army with steam powered artillery hadn't conquered the world......... or Not?

 

[Lascaris]

He was already 75 at the time of his death. So he's not likely to live for any great length of time post 212.

 

[Krishna123]

He was already 75 at the time of his death. So he's not likely to live for any great length of time post 212.

Still it would be reasonable to assume that he either owned a set or knew who did of his works, plus even a few years alive and working examples of described existing wonder machines and concepts could be taken by the tech stealing Romans and used for their own enjoyment most likely but could lead to SteamPunkRomanStylee.... 🧐🧐🧐🧐
think of it the walls of Constantinople with steam cannon or the Rhine frontier with steam powered (primitive pot boilers) cannon firing canister at the barbarians trying to cross the frozen river...... or adrianople with field artillery slamming the horde into paste...

 

[kholieken]

One man couldn't create Industrial Revolution. And his death ray and steam cannon is likely exaggerated and ineffective.

 

[Lalli]

Archimedes was already pretty old with standards of his time. He hardly would live anymore very long. Even if he can invent something, it is probably forgotten soon after his death if then Romans don't feel that being useful and finding out how to use that.

 

[Karolus Rex]

How would Archimedes survival even lead to steampunk? The mention of glass to make a "heat ray" is from a work almost 7 centuries after the event, Polybios, the closest source to the events and who could actually talk to veterans of the Siege, has no mentions of any heat ray, Livy and Plutarch also make no mentions of it, they all mention his claw and his innovations in siege artillery, to throw rocks and spears, the mentions of him using fire are well after the fact, in the 2nd Century AD, mirrors are even further away and the mentions of a "steam cannon" are afaik only from Leonardo da Vinci more than a thousand years away, so there's nothing to show that steam or even mirrors were ever used in Syracuse, just smart applications of geometrics and mathematics, the things Archimedes was famous for among contemporaries, on the applications of existing weaponry to make it more efficient, and ofc the famous claw.

 

[UniversalCommons]

There were a number of devices which the Romans took from Archimedes including an orrery and other devices. Archimedes has close ties to the Library of Alexandria and was supposed to have visited it. He was supposed to have built Archimedes screw while he was at the Library of Alexandria. He probably had extensive works which were lost as well as machines. He was a close associate of Erastothenes another genius. The Romans took all of his stuff and divided it among different people as part of the rewards of conquest. We probably lost of some science, early astronomical machinery, and written works. He was also associated with the antikythera device possibly and might have had some pre-antikythera type mechanisms. If you wanted to create an alternate history with a living Archimedes, you could have Erastothenes convince Archimedes to stay on permanently at the Museion in Alexandria. I've been thinking about an ASB timeline which included this.

 

[wcv215]

I saw an recreation of his steam cannon used during the Roman Siege of his city.

You can't have seen a recreation, because it didn't exist. And neither did any death ray.

He was also associated with the antikythera device possibly and might have had some pre-antikythera type mechanisms.

If he helped build the mechanism it would be quite an astonishing feat considering it was made a century AFTER he was dead.

Archimedes is frankly one of the most overrated historical figures of all time. Yes he was brilliant. Yes he made a lot of important contributions to math and science. But the idea that he was some kind of one in a trillion super-ultra-mega-genius who totes would have changed the world had he lived for like five more years, despite not changing the world in the previous SIXTY is absurd.

 

[UniversalCommons]

That is absolutely correct. Archimedes was supposed to have created something called the Sphere of Archimedes that showed the motion of the planets. It is mentioned by Cicero and other people at the time. What matters is that some of his contributions would have not been lost, and it would have added to the other lost knowledge at Alexandria. Quite a bit of the science at the Library of Alexandria was lost. None of the works of Ctesebius for example, the father of pneumatics survived. There was a synthesis that did not happen. Hero was another person at Alexandria who people make a lot of conjectures about. I think the right push from an outsider might have changed things.

The Greeks and other cultures at the time did not think highly of tinkering and were more oriented towards philosophical thought than mechanics.

 

[Simreeve]

Archimedes is frankly one of the most overrated historical figures of all time. Yes he was brilliant. Yes he made a lot of important contributions to math and science. But the idea that he was some kind of one in a trillion super-ultra-mega-genius who totes would have changed the world had he lived for like five more years, despite not changing the world in the previous SIXTY is absurd.

Rather like Leonardo da Vinci.
H'mmm, in any ASB ATLs where reincarnation exists, maybe they had the same soul?

 

[Krishna123]

Great fun reading the replies to my bag of gunpowder stuffed snakes......🧐🥺🧐🥺
However the point of the idea as always is not the individual rather the potential of what that individuals presence in that place and time can cause....
One main issue with knowledge in antiquity was its exclusive nature, I.e creator and apprentices dead idea gone....
The Romans were great thieves that spread the results of their thefts far and wide.... hence glass blowing spread empire wide in less than a century,
so whatever fruits born by Archimedes presence in Rome for even a few years would spread and possibly make tinkering fashionable... growth of science, growth of proto industry, guilds and latifundia agriculture allowing as OTL uk growth of industry to occur...
Maybe or maybe not.... still love the steam cannon idea!!!!
However possibly an insert of leonardo da Vinci soul/mind near death into a young Archimedes might be interesting??
One interesting factoid is that some historian postulate that the Archimedes screw was either rediscovered by him or came to him via the hanging gardens of Babylon which used a similar device (possibly) to move water up its levels and in the irrigation required in that area of the world.....

 

[mrcubfan415]

If you wanted to create an alternate history with a living Archimedes, you could have Erastothenes convince Archimedes to stay on permanently at the Museion in Alexandria. I've been thinking about an ASB timeline which included this.

I would definitely read that