What else could Germany do with the resources used in the naval race with the UK? What should they have used them on?
- Thread starter Parmenion
- Start date
Lots more machine guns?
The French 1914 offensive saw them get pretty well massacred. Against more machine guns they could have lost even more - maybe enough to make victory on the Marne impossible.
The French 1914 offensive saw them get pretty well massacred. Against more machine guns they could have lost even more - maybe enough to make victory on the Marne impossible.
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They could develop a LMG sooner yes
Interesting ASB is mg 42 with German army in 1914
If steel used is to be telling for a ground war, the rail roads is the most important improvement the Germans can make, next would be reforms to the German Officer corps, so the Germans could expand their army without keeping all the officer positions for the elite, and this also forces social changes within the German empire.
Other than these three things, what could they do? Build massively fortified borders with France and Russia?
Build up their industry at home and their colonies infrastructure, making them pay off better? My sense is that this isn't pointed at non-war related stuff?
1) RailRoads sufficient not for civilian needs, but for war time needs.
2) Reforms that leave open a bigger army, and more rights to the less than elites.
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Fortified borders on both sides may cost a lot more than a fleet of battleships
Any investment in the colonies is gonna be a lost cause without a very strong navy
I definitely agree with the improvement in railways and officer staff
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A larger German army is just one that runs out of supply faster. Germany spending more on her military doesn't improve Belgian infrastructure, and that was one of the biggest bottlenecks that lead to the failure of the Schlieffen Plan IOTL.
It was the only thing that came to mind, to use up all that steel if the improvement to the German railways to bring them from civilian economic activities level to military supply and logistic wartime capable needs level didn't. A more robust arms industry, along with stockpiles of ammunition and equipment and rations to fight for at least three months, all out?
True.
Thanks.
The French were the ones driving the Land arms race by funding Russia's expansion. The French Army was bigger than the German army.
Not sure what else the could do after going to 3 years of service and calling in everyone. Germany inducted a lot lower percentage for 2 years of service.
Agreed.
The German 2, 3, and 4th armies were off the rails by the time they approached the Marne.
Thanks to ArtosStark for the chart and notes. It's well worth the read in Is a Late CP Victory Possible? .
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Driftless
Donor
More of a civil government/ societal change: increase the output of German agriculture, so there is more storable cushion in the food supply. More tractors and mechanization?
I don't have an answer for this, but how much of a nation wide net of large granaries existed in Germany, as are common in western North America? Those strucures are big and expensive
I don't have an answer for this, but how much of a nation wide net of large granaries existed in Germany, as are common in western North America? Those strucures are big and expensive
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How much can French army logically expand? They also have naval interest in the Mediterranean, which cannot be ignored.
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Band in China
Banned
Germany already had intensive agriculture, the issue wasn't a matter of supply they farmed most of what was economical but that war pulled away so much capacity for fertilizer production, farm animals, manpower, and the mess that was all the different ministries and local governments trying to ration food.
The real answer? Diplomacy, there was no easy way for Germany to match the manpower and resources of the Entente by shaving off a percentage from its budget.
OOBs have each active division with 18 105mm howitzers and 54 77mm guns. There were 52 active divisions plus the equivalent of 5 more in brigades. Thats 52 * 18 = 936 105 mm guns deployed with the Active army. Increasing that to 36 per division and adding them to the reserve divisions would make an impact. The 41+ Reserve, Ersatz and Landwehr divisions had none.
Adding up to 4,000 would make a big difference. Adding a few hundred more 150mm and 210mm guns would also make a big difference.
They had 368 150mm guns at the Active corps level, approximately 14 per corps.
There were also 96 210mm guns, plus two 420mm and three 305mm guns.
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The war faction should have listened to the Kaiser and he should have followed Bismark's advice. Renew the treaty with Russia, lay low and collect the profits from Germany and AH's booming economies. Ignore the French breaking treaties regarding Morocco.
Britain somehow managed to back Japan vs Russia, cut Russia off from the Med and get Russia to give up on Afghanistan and go against Germany. Germany had nothing Russia needed. 🤷♂️
French diplomacy deserves an A+ (minus three +++ due to casualties).
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Band in China
Banned
Assigning blame doesn't do much, it just makes one's points seem less objective.
It wasn't a war of professionals was it? WWI was a war with mass mobilization. Germany drafted the entire cohort from 18-50 in 1914 and was reliant on 18 year-olds afterwards. They had to demobilize in 1915-1918 once it dawned on them that the war wasn't going to be short and they will need skilled farmers and machinists to continue the war. Keeping a higher percentage of the population in active service doesn't increase the number of soldiers available once everyone's been trained.
The German government didn't want to spend so much on the army leading up to the war, and if we aren't considering political will or economy then let's throw in the population of the British and French empires-something which Germany would never be able to compete against and which as the British Indian Army showed could've overwhelmed Germany had the British bothered to deploy them long-term on the Western Front.
The German navy serves some purposes.
1) It's a Germany service and can suck up officers from the middle class.
2) Naval construction employs a lot of people and so allows social stability.
3) Germany by 1914 has a large merchant marine and a fair number of colonies. These have to be protected, at the very least against 2nd rate naval powers.
However, Germany could have not built a big battleship a year from 1900 on, use this bit of money saved and built some fortifications on the western front, maybe add a marine division, modernize some artillery. Add a rail line in East Prussia,
And maybe east first is an option now, especially if tensions are less with England are less and she is tempted to sit this one out for a while.
1) It's a Germany service and can suck up officers from the middle class.
2) Naval construction employs a lot of people and so allows social stability.
3) Germany by 1914 has a large merchant marine and a fair number of colonies. These have to be protected, at the very least against 2nd rate naval powers.
However, Germany could have not built a big battleship a year from 1900 on, use this bit of money saved and built some fortifications on the western front, maybe add a marine division, modernize some artillery. Add a rail line in East Prussia,
And maybe east first is an option now, especially if tensions are less with England are less and she is tempted to sit this one out for a while.
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