What are your most bizarre ideas for a world in which Christianity fails?

[daemonar]

What I am looking for is a timeline in which Christianity has absolutely nothing to do with contemporary European society. And yes, I think that’s doable after Constantine, and no I don’t think it requires some sort of a plague… that’s ridiculous. Manichaeism was once every bit as if not more influential in Central Asia, and now it’s just curiosity of history books. So, let’s please stop debating whether or not this is feasible or HOW it might be done. That isn’t at all what I asked. I’m asking for your bizarre ideas. Where to move different groups of people, religious developments, etc.

You want a really bizarre idea? No dominant Christiandom in Europe means some new post-Roman empire successfully unites the Mediterranean during the early Middle Ages. This means that the Western world / Mediterranean basin is able to develop a singular supranational identity and political mythology comparable to that of China and India - of a singular region occasionally united and occasionally divided, inhabited by diverse people who are ultimately part of the same polity. "Europe" as a concept includes North Africa, the Levant, Arabia, and Mesopotamia - namely, "west Eurasia."

This averts European naval exploration westward across the Atlantic. That averts European colonialism of the Americas. That enables increased European activity in Africa, creates space for Japanese and other east Eurasian polities (specifically those not part of China) to colonize parts of the Americas and Australia, and allows Mesoamerica and the Andes to never have their pre-Columbian cultural heritage destroyed by ideologically destructive Catholic missionaries looking to erase the native traditions.

The bizarre part: the Japanese colonize California and Mesoamerica, imposing elements of Japanese culture into Aztec-Mexican life before that foreign empire decays and collapses. You know how OTL India carries a lot of British cultural baggage? Big Mexico carrying a lot of Japanese cultural baggage. Nahuatl Samurai. Bushido Aztecs. Japanese food imports chocolate and hot peppers.

 

[sarahz]

Depending on whether you consider Catharism Christian or some offshoot of the various dualistic/Buddhist-influenced religions that prevailed in the Middle East and steppe for a long time, one can postulate a Cathar-dominated society--possibly in Bulgaria?

Catharism is in large part Gnostic so apparently its out.....

 

[Hassungṙengjang]

You want a really bizarre idea? No dominant Christiandom in Europe means some new post-Roman empire successfully unites the Mediterranean during the early Middle Ages. This means that the Western world / Mediterranean basin is able to develop a singular supranational identity and political mythology comparable to that of China and India - of a singular region occasionally united and occasionally divided, inhabited by diverse people who are ultimately part of the same polity. "Europe" as a concept includes North Africa, the Levant, Arabia, and Mesopotamia - namely, "west Eurasia."

This averts European naval exploration westward across the Atlantic. That averts European colonialism of the Americas. That enables increased European activity in Africa, creates space for Japanese and other east Eurasian polities (specifically those not part of China) to colonize parts of the Americas and Australia, and allows Mesoamerica and the Andes to never have their pre-Columbian cultural heritage destroyed by ideologically destructive Catholic missionaries looking to erase the native traditions.

The bizarre part: the Japanese colonize California and Mesoamerica, imposing elements of Japanese culture into Aztec-Mexican life before that foreign empire decays and collapses. You know how OTL India carries a lot of British cultural baggage? Big Mexico carrying a lot of Japanese cultural baggage. Nahuatl Samurai. Bushido Aztecs. Japanese food imports chocolate and hot peppers.

This is a very interesting idea, and I’d like to explore it a little more. Shame he got banned. I wonder what for? Whatever…

I could see this happening with a sort of modified version of Julian’s personal religion, perhaps a syncretism of it with the Cult of Serapis and Isis. I could see this in the Mediterranean, Europe, and perhaps also Mesopotamia, but Iran is probably out here. It will be the center of the reaction AGAINST whatever Europe is doing, most likely.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Well. Norse Gaul, Berber Sicily and South Italy, Yeniseian Russia, Uralic-speaking northern Germany, Scythian or Sarmatian Dacia, Alan Spain, Persian Anatolia, surviving Kingdoms of Anatolian languages-speakers...

Why would no/aborted Christianity = a bunch of random migrations and linguistic changes few of which make any sense given the demographics and culture of those regions in Late Antiquity (Christian or not)? The language changes that happened (or for that matter didn't) happened for good reasons.

 

[Hassungṙengjang]

Why would no/aborted Christianity = a bunch of random migrations and linguistic changes few of which make any sense given the demographics and culture of those regions in Late Antiquity (Christian or not)? The language changes that happened (or for that matter didn't) happened for good reasons.

That is outside the scope of this thread, sir. It depends entirely on HOW Christianity is aborted, though. I’ll start another thread for the best way to abort Christianity after Constantine, though. I’m interested in what you guys have to say on that subject.

 

[imperiusdamian]

Here are my thoughts:

- Egypt finally rebels against the Romans and has a big revival movement- kicking out foreign gods and influences, reviving the old religion, picking an Egyptian pharaoh. Due to the grain production they get hideously rich selling grain surplus instead of it just being shipped out across the Roman Empire and they start to reassert old territorial claims in the East
- Germanic migrations westward result in the native Britons being pushed into Wales and compelled to become Welsh as per OTL, but there is no evangelism from Augustine so the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms remain Germanic pagans. Possibly united by Northumbria, or never united at all and then conquered piecemeal by the Danes and Norse, although no Great Heathen Army since there was no religious antagonism
- the core territories of the Empire remain intact except with the loss of Egypt. After failing to regain the wayward nation the Emperors, now using the cult of Sol Invictus rather than the sign of the Cross, turn their attention eastward toward the Sassanids and let pretty much anything north and west of Cisalpine Gaul fend for itself
- The Kemetic revival also affects the empire wide cult of Isis causing it to gain popularity in a modified form losing some of its Hellenic trappings, although Mithras' cult also remains popular especially in the military
- religious tolerance remains the norm in the wider world due to the lack of monotheistic faiths insisting their god is the only god (nobody in Egypt wants to revive Akhenaten's nasty little experiment...)

More later as I think of it!