marathag
Banned
Because the Brits forgot about this from 1928, RA got mad that Tankers from the EMF had access to their precious 18 pdrs and got the idea spiked in 1931
What are plausible decisions the United States could have made after Pearl Harbor to improve their performance in the war?
- Thread starter McPherson
- Start date
McPherson
Banned
No. it is a war-crime and an utterly evil despicable atrocity.
Let's review:
a. Unrestricted submarine warfare.
b. Area bombing of cities.
c. Firebombing of cities.
d. Murdering swimmers after a ship sinking either from the air, surface ship or from submarine. (Bismarck Sea that one.)
e. Headhunting (Prosecuted vigorously by JAG when discovered in New Guinea.)
There are other hideous atrocities and war crimes speculated, but I don't think we have good enough documentation to make a case for shooting Japanese parachutists in mid air, or shooting prisoners as a matter of "understood" policy, but I would not be surprised. It was not a "clean" war in Europe or the Pacific.
McPherson
Banned
Because the Brits forgot about this from 1928, RA got mad that Tankers from the EMF had access to their precious 18 pdrs and got the idea spiked in 1931
We had this discussion before. And it turns out that...
The stupid shall be... etc.
Bombing cities was a war crime by treaties the US had actually signed?
McPherson
Banned
This:
and
Robert P. Newman (2011). Truman and the Hiroshima Cult. MSU Press. pp. 121–125.
describes FDR's appeal to the belligerents during the 1939 Polish invasion by Germany to restrict strategic bombardment of civilian populations to confined zones of ground military operations.
Applicable law is the 1907 Geneva Convention concerning bombardments.
Here.
I think that covers the United States.
I never heard of Hyde M2 SMG before, but from what I have found online, it seems it had some manufactoring problems, and limited numbers were produced. It was lighter then Thompson, cheaper as well, though if we have a situation where M2 carbine is availlable in large numbers, I do think going for it would be better option. In sheer output, there are very few things that can compete with M1 Carbine, over 6 million produced were produced, most of which were made by non-firearm companies. More of them were made then M1 Garands (5.4 million according to Wiki) and Thompson SMG production pales in comparison, with some 1.75 million. Its cartridge certainly is underpowered when compared to .30.06, but then again in most combat conditions .30 Carbine would be adequate, and it still does have a better performance then .45 at longer ranges, and if there is a need for longer range firepower, M1 Garands, BAR, MMGs and Mortars are there as well.
Having a US version of FM 24/27 would be nice to see, though it would certainly take them some time to reverse engineer/put it in imperial measurements, which would take some time, though if they decide to do something like that before the war, it would not be such a problem. Although, if they are already going for a non-US design, it perhaps would be better for them to choose Bren/Zb.26 LMG, if only for quick chamge barrel. Original BAR variant was showing its age by WW2, but it was still usable, and if they decide upon a modernized version (either one of the foreign variants or one of their domestic developments), it would certainly be a much more capable weapon.
I did not think about Kangaroo type vehicles at all, they would work as well, though it seems that they did all right with what they had, generally Halftracks.
How about something like: "Hey, let's actually listen to those sub skippers who are telling us that US torpedoes suck so hard that a vacuum forms around them in terms of performance, instead of ignoring them or telling them that they're too stupid to know how to use them properly"?
The torpedo scandal was horrific.
McPherson
Banned
I think I will let experts answer.
1. Comments (My opinion; YMMV and should because I am decidedly not an expert on this subject.): WWII is not us now. They put up with less than good and loved that less than good, because they were mostly civilians, not trained long term military professionals. They had nothing as a benchmark to which they could compare as that benchmark in their life experience. M1 carbines (semi-auto) not M2 banana gun *(full auto) were what the arsenals turned out for most WW II usage. Barrel rise complaint is for the M2-carbine and Korean and Vietnam War. Now for WWII, Korea and compared to the first M-16s in Vietnam (poor training and wrong propellant) and McNamara (GRRR.), the M2 banana gun was a stellar performer.
1a. The M2 SMG (Hyde) was given to Marlin, a company with no proven experience with powdered metal forging as a manufacturing process. This was a disaster. One might have told GM to find an actual subcontractor who could sinter a receiver when they made the gun or to have the subcontractor MILL it. But it is GM, so they FUBARED as usual, then as now,^1 and the US Army received its first ruined run and NSA (No sale American.). Should have hired FORD to manage the program and run the gun.
2. FN(?)24 is a bolt action rifle. Basically the Gewehr 98 which in US usage is the Springfield 1903.
3. Vz.24 is a semi-auto pistol. Vz.27 is the "improved" one that used .32 Browning ACP and thus IS built to American standards.
3. Just a suggestion. Canadians are very practical. Turret worn out? Pull it and use the remains as an APC. Keep the bow machine gun, weld a steel plate with pop up doors over the remains of the fighting compartment, rig up a pintle machine gun mount for a BREN and voila... IFV. Do same with Sextons and anything else with the main fighty bits worn out but automotive parts still good.
^1 Look at how many things the US Army *(and Navy) gave GM that they f004ed up?
HS404
MG42
The "grease gun".
Oerlikon until the NGF fixed it.
Bofors (same again.)
P-75 Eagle
and any plane else they made.
Even the Allison sucked until GE fixed it.
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Well, yes, but the Germans at least organised an investigation very early on, after believing the U-Boat commanders tales of torpedoes hitting but not working (or some cases falling apart), exploding prematurely, or passing right under the target. The US Navy's Torpedo Department reacted by refusing to believe a word and then taking years to open their ears to what was going on. Shameful.
He is not referring to Fabrique Nationale but the FM (Fusil Mitrailleur) 24/29. The French knock-off of the BAR with the magazine feed coming from the top rather than from underneath.
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[QUOTE="McPherson, post: 20169298, member: 107914"
OVERLORD was so bad shipping wise that the UK was still on rations almost a year after the fighting in Europe ended. Logistics (naval) has long-term aftershock effects.[/QUOTE]
UK rationing went on for 8 years after the war. The civilian ration was reduced below wartime levels for a period after the war ended.
OVERLORD was so bad shipping wise that the UK was still on rations almost a year after the fighting in Europe ended. Logistics (naval) has long-term aftershock effects.[/QUOTE]
UK rationing went on for 8 years after the war. The civilian ration was reduced below wartime levels for a period after the war ended.
McPherson
Banned
I think we need to put everything in historic context.
Commentary:
1. The British Isles lost direct food aid from the United States once the shooting stopped.
2. Overall balance of payments and war debt hobbled British purchase power.
3. Political changes in the UK and the US governments led to changes in policy. In some cases, the despicable individuals involved (US side.) made decisions that were not good ones. The US State Department was a source of much of that nonsense. (My opinion always, YMMV and should.)
4. And as noted, the hulls for lift were NOT there thanks to international trade pattern disruption and also the loss of strict naval traffic control and regulation. It takes time for free trade patterns to re-establish and for lift to return to normal traffic patterns; hence the year long transition on the shipping lanes post WW II.
5. The mess in Europe was largely shouldered by the UK until Truman was able to put a man he could trust into the State Department.
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The Burden in feeding the starving people of the liberated territory in 1945 and later that fell on the largest of the British people is all but forgotten in the modern world.
Few simple ones:
- Find out that F4F guns tend to jam during dogfights and fix the issue. (O’Hare airport gets a different name in this TL since the namesake’s wingman gets to share Betty kills near Rabaul)
- Find out and fix the warm weather problem in dive bombers sooner. As soon as this is done more bombs will start to find their targets.
And how about forgetting Operation Bolero? Invasion to mainland Europe was not going to happen anytime soon and any extra aircraft in PTO from start of 1942 could take a toll advancing Japanese. In the first half of 1942 there would be a problem with basing, but base locatios like NE Australia and Dutch Harbour could be expanded rapidly and would be more powerfull when the war reached them in the summer. In latter half of 1942 army air force reinforcements to Guadalcanal and New Guinea would be appreciated.
They used sintering (which is basically heating up powdered metal and compressing it into the correct form), unfortunately whilst the designer had used it the company chosen to make them hadn't, which resulted in lots of QC problems. By the time they got it figured out the M3 was already in production, didn't use any exotic manufacturing methods and was much, much cheaper.