Washington's Surrender

[Tom_NUFC]

Despite working on this off and on for about 4 years, I still haven't finished this!

So far I've reached August 1932, but anyway, I'll post what I've got and I'll do it in batches. Comments/Feedback/Suggestions/Ideas/Questions all welcome.


Here goes.



1776

AUG 13: The recent build up of Royal Navy ships carrying the British Expeditionary Force on board continues in New York Harbour. George Washington reports from his New York Headquarters: “96 ships have arrived in the harbour on this day alone.” Just five days earlier, on August 8, the Declaration of Independence, (which had been announced to the world on July 4) was signed by members of the Continental Congress.

AUG 14: A further 20 Royal Naval ships arrive in New York, taking the number to over 400. 32,000 British and Hessian troops are landed on Staten Island. In comparison, Washington has only 19,000 men available and no navy.

AUG 22: British landings are made on Long Island. Washington is forced to split is forces between Brooklyn and Manhattan, with 12,000 stationed at the former.

AUG 27: The British, under the command of General William Howe outflank Washington’s troops on Long Island. Over 1,400 rebels are killed, wounded or captured. Washington’s men retreat to Brooklyn Heights, where they are trapped between the British and the East River.

AUG 28: Washington’s men fight on, despite food supplies running low.

AUG 29: Food supplies have all but run out and heavy rain falls. Washington’s army are exhausted, hungry and their morale is low. The adverse weather conditions pose a problem to Howe, as he is unable to send frigates into the East River to block a possible esacpe route. However, by the afternoon, the wind drops and the weather improves. Howe orders five Frigates into the East River and succesfully blocks the rebels’ only escape route.

AUG 30: The Royal Naval frigates in the East River have pounded Washington’s position relentlessly all night. The rebels have suffered a heavy number of casualties. Any chance of escape for Washington has gone and he is forced to surrender.

SEP 2: Congress learns from the Comte de Vergennes that following Washington’s defeat, France can no longer support the rebellion.

SEP 5: New York is firmly under British control. The British issue proclamations to inhabitants urging a ‘peaceable allegiance’ be sworn to King George III, which will “guarantee the rights of life and property.” Many take advantage of this and revolutionary support evaporates. Increasing numbers of residents in areas of neighbouring New Jersey and Pennsylvania also swear their allegiance to the King.

OCT 13: After failing to start insurrections in Canada, rebels under the command of Benedict Arnold retreat to Lake Champlain, pursued by the British forces of Guy Carleton. Arnold evades capture by constructing a makeshift fleet and sailing the lake. Carleton is delayed for several months, but by October 13, HMS Inflexible is completed and destroys Arnold’s fleet within 6 hours at Valcour Island.

OCT 16: Arnold’s defeat sounds the death knell for the rebellion. The army had already been severely decimated by Washington’s defeat and now following Valcour Island, huge numbers of people are renouncing their support for the rebellion, with soldiers of the Continental army disappearing. The number of British troops arriving continues to increase, and Congress is left with no option but to sue for peace with Britain. Congress instructs Benjamin Franklin to seek negotiations with Lord North for a truce, followed by General Peace. After doing so, John Hancock exclaims: “Oh God! It is all over!”

OCT 20: As of midnight, the truce between the British and Rebels comes into effect. All rebels lay down their arms.

OCT 24: The settlement for peace in the American colonies is discussed at Westminster, with many MPs critical of Lord North’s harsh treatment of the colonials which had caused them to rebel in the first place.

OCT 30: The Cabinet agrees to proposals for a ‘magnanimous peace’. Following heavy criticisms, Lord North accepts that “laws passed prior to rebellion have led to misunderstandings on both sides.” The rebellion’s ring leaders will answer their crimes but the majority of rebels are to be granted amnesty. The Continental Congress is disbanded and the colonies are provisionally divided in to three areas of command to keep the peace. William Howe taking command in the New England colonies, John Burgoyne in the Middle Colonies of New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, and Henry Clinton in the Southern Colonies – Maryland, Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia. In addition, Guy Carleton is given a command to prevent revolutionary activities spilling over into the Canadas. The London Conference on the future structure of British America will take place the following June.

1777

MAR 8: The trials of 56 rebel leaders who signed the Declaration of Independence end in London. Many, including John Adams, Sam Adams, John Hancock and Thomas Jefferson are executed, along with the English sympathiser Tom Paine. Others, along with rebel commanders including George Washington are sentenced to life imprisonment in prisons in Britain. They never return to America. 72 year old Benjamin Franklin is spared, though he is forced to live in exile in London.

JULY 4: The London Conference attended by British politicians and governors, commanders and moderates from America finishes, having agreed on a new structure for the governance of British America. The thirteen colonies, along with northern Quebec (which is divided into the present-day provinces of Quebec and Canada. Southern Quebec becomes the Mid West territory), Nova Scotia, New Brunswick (united as the province of Acadia) and Florida are to become provinces of the Confederation of British America. Each province will send a single MP to sit at Parliament in Westminster. In addition, new Provincial assemblies and a Confederational assembly will be created. Members of the Confederational Parliament will elect on Envoy to Westminster, who will meet with the Cabinet to discuss, advise upon and represent American issues. Taxes in America can be levied at all three levels (Westminster, Confederational and Provincial) but they cannot exceed any levels of tax imposed in Britain itself. The CBA will have an American Minister, who will be the head of the governing party in the Confederational Assembly, and a Governor-General will be appointed by the Crown and Westminster. Each Province will have a Provincial Minister, who will be the head of the governing party in the Provincial Assembly. The Voting Franchise will be given to all property owning Anglo-Saxon males over the age of 21. A site on the Potomac River, on the Maryland-Virginia border has been selected for the Confederational Capital to be built upon. The city will take the name of the River and be known as Potomac City. Meanwhile, New York serves as the temporary Capital. A public holiday is to be held on this day forward, which will be known as ‘Confederation Day’.

AUG 16: Confederational and Provincial elections take place. The Tories win control of the Confederational assembly with Tory leader Thomas Fletchall becoming the first American Minister of the CBA.

AUG 17: Sir William Howe is officially appointed as Lord Manhattan, Governor-General of British America. Thomas Fletchall officially takes up his position as American Minister.

 

[Mr Stereo1]

Very good, are you going to go beyond this?

RULE BRITTANIA, and the americas...

 

[Tom_NUFC]

yup. More coming up later!

 

[dreadnought jenkins]

Good timeline, I look forward to more.

Nitpick: New Brunswick didn't exist until 1784, and was the result of loyalist settlement. Without the exodus, New Brunswick would probably remain part of Nova Scotia. There just wasn't the population there at the time.

 

[Faeelin]

Why would Britain proceed to unify the colonies after 1776?

 

[Tom_NUFC]

Good timeline, I look forward to more.

Nitpick: New Brunswick didn't exist until 1784, and was the result of loyalist settlement. Without the exodus, New Brunswick would probably remain part of Nova Scotia. There just wasn't the population there at the time.

Cheers for that.

Why would Britain proceed to unify the colonies after 1776?

Because the American colonist have seen that the colonies have to work together in order to strengthen their position. Britain is taking heed of its mistakes. It's sort of a compromise if you like.

 

[Tom_NUFC]

Bit of a gap coming up where we skip a few years (this happens now and then).

1789

JUL 14: Revolution takes hold in France due to increased absolutism, a poor economy and bad harvests. In Paris, the Bastille prison is stormed.

1795

APR 12: The French army is positioned in the Pyrenees, ready to attack Spain. King Charles of Spain signs a treaty with France, rather than face a bloody war against superior forces. The treaty in effect subjugates Spain to French authority.

AUG 23: Following the Franco-Spanish Treaty, Portugal’s Queen Maria I appeals for assistance from their traditional ally Britain. Prime Minister William Pitt (the Younger) declares war on France and Spain.

OCT 4: The war spreads to North America. Georgian Regiments of the British Army are dispatched into western Louisiana, which is taken under British control.

1799

NOV 11: Following a Coup d’Etat, Napoleon Bonaparte becomes First Consul of France.

1800

MAY 5: The Act of Union is passed at Westminster, joining Great Britain and Ireland in the United Kingdom.

OCT 1: The Treaty of San Ildefonso sees Louisiana returned to the French from Spain.

1803

JUNE 25: Approval is given by both the Confederational Assembly at Potomac City and Westminster for the construction of a ‘Sea Way’ between the Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico, by-passing French Louisiana. The project is the brain-child of Industrialist, Alexander Whitworth from Georgia.


1805

OCT 21: The Royal Navy defeats the combined French and Spanish fleet at Trafalgar. Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson is wounded in the battle and dies before its end. He is replaced by Cuthbert Collingwood.


1806


JUNE 24: A British force, commanded by Colonel William Carr Beresford lands near Buenos Aires in the Spanish viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata and engage the Spanish militia.

JUNE 27: Beresford’s troops overwhelm the militia, taking control of and occupying Buenos Aires.

DEC 10: The British River Plate colony is formally established, stretching from the River Plate, south to the River Naposta.

1807

FEB 12: 8,000 men under General Samuel Auchmaty capture Montevideo after fierce fighting. Forces under Lieutenant-General John Whitelock spread northwards to quell further Spanish forces.

MAR 25: The Slave Trade Act is passed at Westminster, abolishing the slave trade throughout the British Empire. A fine of £100 is imposed on any British ship found to be carrying slaves.

JULY 14: The British occupied area north of the River-Plate as far as the Brazilian border is amalgamated into the River Plate colony. John Whitelock is knighted and is appointed Governor-General of the River Plate Colony.

NOV 7: The Portuguese Royal Family flees to Brazil to escape the Napoleonic War in Europe.

1810

SEP 16: Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, the parish priest of the town of Dolores declares Mexican Independence. Independence forces begin their march towards Mexico City, capturing Zacatecas, San Luis Patosí and Valladolid along the way.

OCT 30: The Mexican Independence forces encounter resistance at Monte de las Cruces. However despite defeating Spanish troops the march loses momentum and the march on Mexico City collapses.

1811

JULY 30: Miguel Hidalgo is executed by firing squad, following his capture in March 1811.

1813

JUNE 17: French troops from Louisiana launch an offensive from their stronghold in St Louis. They cross the Mississippi and begin advancing along the Missouri and Illinois rivers.

SEP 4: Fort Henry (now Chicago) falls to the Louisianan troops.

SEP 15: Admiral Collingwood leads a Royal Naval fleet through the St Lawrence Sea Way and the Great Lakes en-route to face the French at Fort Henry. He stops at Newcastle on Lake Erie to build up his forces and rally support.

SEP 29: Collingwood’s fleet arrive in Lake Michigan and attack French positions at Fort Henry from the Lake. Meanwhile army regiments from across the North West Territory, Pennsylvania, New York, Lower Canada and an Iroquois regiment have the town surrounded to the South.

SEP 31: The French capitulate and surrender Fort Henry

1814

APR 6: Paris falls to Allied Forces. Napoleon abdicates and flees to Elba. The French Monarchy is restored under Louis XVIII. Louisiana remains loyal to Napoleon, and many hope that he will be able to travel from Elba to Louisiana.

JUN 2: Allied reinforcements from Europe begin flooding into America.

SEP 15: A Royal Navy fleet sails up the Whitworth Sea Way and onto the Mississippi. The Royal Navy and Georgian troops under General Andrew Slatyford overwhelm the Louisianans at the Battle of Whitworth.

SEP 29: The fleet bombards French positions at St Louis, allowing army regiments to cross the Mississippi and occupy the city.

OCT 14: The Royal Navy attacks New Orleans harbour. Many French Naval and Merchant ships and harbour-side buildings are destroyed. The British attempt to invade, but are driven back by a mixture of soldiers and townspeople. Despite this, Royal Navy ships continue their bombardment of the city for several days.

OCT 20: The arrival of further reinforcements allows British forces to take New Orleans. Louisiana is left with no alternative but to surrender.

1815

JAN 17: The Treaty of Paris takes place and is considered to be a generous peace offering to the French. France is to retain its borders of 1792. Malta, which was taken by Britain, will remain in British hands. St Lucia and Mauritius are also to be ceded to Britain. France will regain Guadeloupe. The Spanish-speaking two thirds of Santo Domingo will be returned to Spain, with France retaining the French-speaking remaining third. Louisiana north of the Missouri is ceded to Britain with France retaining all land south of the river, including St Louis. However, the stretch of the Mississippi running through Louisiana is to be placed under joint British and French control. Apart from having to demilitarise New Orleans, France is neither disarmed nor forced to pay reparations.

MAR 20: Napoleon escapes from Elba and lands at Antibes in southern France. Royalist troops, who confront him, refuse to fire upon him and he passes through France unmolested. He is greeted by fanatical crowds at the Palais de Tuileries in Paris. Louis XVIII is deposed.

JUN 12: Napoleon’s troops encounter British and German forces in Belgium.

JUN 18: Napoleon is defeated at the Battle of Waterloo by the Duke of Wellington.

JUL 3: In Paris, Bonapartist forces capitulate.

JUL 9: Napoleon surrenders and is banished to St Helena, where he will die six years later.

NOV 20: The second Treaty of Paris takes place. This time France is forced to pay reparations of 700 million Francs and will be occupied by 150,000 British troops commanded by Wellington. In North America, French Louisiana will also be occupied by British troops under the command of Wellington’s brother in law, Sir Edward Packenham.

DEC 16: Portugal and Brazil become the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarve.

1816

FEB 7:The New York conference decides on the restructuring of British America. The Midwest territory is divided into the new Provinces of Franklin, Huron, Illinois,Vandalia, Tennessee and Muskogee. Some of the territory is also annexed by the original provinces. British Louisiana becomes the provinces of New Hanover and Alexandria, with parts also ceded to Illinois and Franklin.

 

[fhaessig]

Bit of a gap coming up where we skip a few years (this happens now and then).

1789

JUL 14: Revolution takes hold in France due to increased absolutism, a poor economy and bad harvests. In Paris, the Bastille prison is stormed.

1795

Absolutely not.

The timing of the french revolution was due to the french cstate bankrupting itself to support and free the american rebel.

Without that bankrupcy, the crown will have enough money to buy grain and provide minimum bread ration. SO the system will totter at least a couple more years ( and a dozen maximum, in my opinion ). But 14 July 1789 is NOT going to be per OTL.

Everything else changes from there ( Napoleon likely serves in the turkish army, for exemple )

Edit : and I'm not even going to go into the ' French forces unite with Austrian armies to attack Germany.' when Germany didn't exist as a state at that time or AUstria was the worst foe of the french republic

 

[Tom_NUFC]

Absolutely not.

The timing of the french revolution was due to the french cstate bankrupting itself to support and free the american rebel.

Without that bankrupcy, the crown will have enough money to buy grain and provide minimum bread ration. SO the system will totter at least a couple more years ( and a dozen maximum, in my opinion ). But 14 July 1789 is NOT going to be per OTL.

Everything else changes from there ( Napoleon likely serves in the turkish army, for exemple )

Edit : and I'm not even going to go into the ' French forces unite with Austrian armies to attack Germany.' when Germany didn't exist as a state at that time or AUstria was the worst foe of the french republic

Well, you know, I did think seriously about whether the French Revolution could still happen, because as you rightly point out the American War of Independence was a factor. But there were still other factors and I read and sought advice and decided that the Revolution could have still taken place. Bad harvest would have still had an effect even if people wouldn't have actually starved. There was still the mounting anger and contempt towards the Absolute Monarchy. And also we're not in a timeline where the War of Independence failed to occur, just one in which the Americans had lost. The ideas are still there. Britain, which was not an Absolute regime anyway has taken heed. The revolutionaries can still look at the ideas from America and from the Liberals in Britain for inspiration.

Thanks for the heads up on the Germany situation - that's just a typo relating to later on in the TL where I'd changed stuff saying Prussia to Germany and I've obviously forgotten about the stuff earlier on. But yes you're quite right a Franco-Austrian alliance does seem far fetched! I've been through notes I made and I can't find anything to explain an alliance between them at that time - besides which the situation in Europe in this TL is very much the same as OTL. That particular entry doesn't look like leading anywhere. So I can remove. I have an original backed up, if by chance I come across an explanation for that!

 

[fhaessig]

Well, you know, I did think seriously about whether the French Revolution could still happen, because as you rightly point out the American War of Independence was a factor. But there were still other factors and I read and sought advice and decided that the Revolution could have still taken place. Bad harvest would have still had an effect even if people wouldn't have actually starved. There was still the mounting anger and contempt towards the Absolute Monarchy.

Yes, it can and it will definitely happen. It just won't happen in 1789 ( and most definitely not with the Bastille being taken a 14 July ).

The trigger for the revolution taking place in 1789 was that the monarchy needed to convene the general estates to agree to new taxes, as the usual ways of trying to keep the treasury going were not working due to the several years of bad harvest. The reason the treasury was empty was because of the french support to the Insurgent.

So no support to the insurgent ( or a very small one ) and the treasury is not as empty in 1789. The treasury not being completely empty in 1789 and the king has no need to convene the general estate ( and can even afford to subsidy grain somewhat ). So no trigger and la fete continue, until the next crisis, at which point the treasury will have become empty.

My guess would be that without french support to the insurgent, the french revolution happens sometime between 1792 and 1808, depending on various things. The way the revolution will unfoils is subject to huge butterflies.

I've been through notes I made and I can't find anything to explain an alliance between them at that time - besides which the situation in Europe in this TL is very much the same as OTL. That particular entry doesn't look like leading anywhere. So I can remove. I have an original backed up, if by chance I come across an explanation for that!

An alliance between a revolutionary France which has executed Marie-Antoinette d'Autriche and Austria seems indeed very difficult. Prussia, now, I could get ( or even Russia, if you want ).

 

[Tom_NUFC]

1817

OCT 15: Troops under the command of Simón Bolívar and Manuel Piar overcome Spanish troops at Angostura and capture the city. The Supreme Headquarters of the Republic of Venezuela are installed.

1819

AUG 17: Spanish forces defeat Bolívar’s Republican army at the Battle of Boyacá. The Spanish forces learn of the Republican plan for a surprise attack, and are able to launch a surprise attack themselves on the Republicans. Over 18,000 Republican troops including Brigadier Generals Francisco de Paula Santander and José Antonio Anzoátegui. The victory acts as a springboard for Spanish advances into Republican territory.

1820

JAN 1: Spanish General Rafael del Riego begins a mutiny in protest of Ferdinand VII’s absolutist rule. Riego demands for the return of the Liberal Constitution of 1812.

MAR 7: The Royal Palace in Madrid is surrounded by soldiers under the command of General Ballesteros.

MAR 10: Ferdinand VII is forced to agree to the restoration of the constitution.

APR 3: Spanish troops under the command of Colonels José María Barreiro and Francisco Jiménez capture Caracas. Bolívar is captured and executed.

DEC: Juan Ruiz de Apodaca, Viceroy of New Spain sends troops under the command of Augustín de Iturbide to crush the independence guerrillas of Vicente Guerrero. However, Iturbide and Guerrero begin negotiations to join the independence forces.


1821

FEB 24: Iturbide’s Spanish troops unify with Guerrero’s Mexican insurgents, creating the Army of Three Guarantees to defence, religion, independence and unity. The decrees appear in the Plan de Iguala. Over the next few months the new army overwhelms Spanish forces in numerous forces.

JUL 15: King Joao VI returns to Portugal from Brazil. His son Pedro remains in Brazil to act as Regent.

AUG 24: Iturbide and the Viceroy of New Spain, Juan de O’Donojú sign the Treaty of Cordoba, granting Mexico’s independence from Spain. However the treaty is repudiated in Spain.

SEP 27: Iturbide leads the Army of the Three Guarantees into Mexico City.

OCT 22: Britain recognises Mexico’s independence, and offers Prince Augustus Frederick, brother of George IV (sixth son of George III) as Mexican Emperor. This appeals to the Mexican Conservadors, who favour a member of European royalty to become emperor.

OCT 26: Iturbide declares himself as Emperor of Mexico, but is opposed by the Sovereign Congress. Iturbide attempts to dissolve the Congress, but is arrested a week later.

NOV 4: Britain’s proposal for Prince Augustus Frederick to be crowned Emperor of Mexico is accepted.

1822

MAR 18: Prince Augustus Frederick is crowned Augusto Frederico I of Mexico.

MAR 29: The Treaty of Mexico City is signed between Mexico and Britain. The treaty declares recognition and respect of the borders between Mexico and the Confederation of British America. It officially proclaims: “A commitment to foster a close friendship…. and to provide security, stability and prosperity to the North American continent.”

JUN 8: Angered by the Treaty of Mexico City, Spanish forces invade the town of San Cristobal in the Guatemala region of Mexico.

JUN 17: Britain declares war on Spain and vows to assist Mexico. The Royal Navy is mobilised and fleets gather at Mobile and Biloxi.

AUG 3: Mexican forces retake San Cristobal.

AUG 10: The Royal Navy defeat the Spanish in the Battle of Biscayne off the southern coast of Florida. A number of Spanish ships are badly damaged or destroyed, by the Royal Navy’s shelling of Havana.

SEP 7: Brazil declares its independence from Portugal.

DEC 1: Portuguese Regent, Pedro is crowned Pedro I, Emperor of Brazil.

1823

MAY 10: Mexican and British forces have driven the Spanish back into South America. Large numbers of Spanish forces find themselves surrounded by the Mexicans at the Gulf of Darien, with both British and Mexican ships in control of the gulf itself.

MAY 22: Spanish forces surrender near to the Gulf of Uraba, on the northern tip of South America.

SEP 3: Mexico and Spain sign the Treaty of Rio Sucio peace agreement. All Spanish lands north of the Gulf of Uraba are ceded to Mexico. No reparations are demanded.

DEC 2: In an extention of the previous year’s Treaty of Mexico City, The CBA, the Empire of Mexico and the Empire of Brazil sign the Pan-American Alliance Doctrine, more commonly known as the ‘Monroe Doctrine’ after its author, the Virginian First Minister, James Monroe.

 

[hzn5pk]

Very interesting timeline, good work, good thoughts. Waiting to see how it unfolds.

A few questions that I have are:

1.) From the posting on the ARW - I wonder if New England, especially Massachussets would fight on after the general colapse of Washington and Arnold? Would they still have the partison support of the Minutemen to resist the English. They would most likely loose in the end, but it would be interesting to see if they would fight on and if the intolerable acts would continue as a punishment.

2.) West Indies - How are the interests of the West Indies represented to Westminster? Will the West Indies be included in the CBA (Potomic City) government, send representitives, or did they already have direct representation to the Crown and Parliement in London?

3.) Native Americans - I take it that the First Nations are just as screwed in this timeline as they were OTL. The colonists are not bound to the Appalachians but will spread.

3.) Slavery - It will be interesting to see how the southern colonies react to the abololition of slavery in the British posessions. How do southerners react to the Parlimentary debates in the 1820's and enactment of the slavery abolition act in 1833? Will the southerners and the West Indies unite and rebel against the Crown? I do take it that laws enacted by Parliement are supreme.

Great timeline keep the updates coming

 

[vultan]

Nice, but kind of depressing to think that none of the colonial revolutions in America will be successful...
Interesting anyway.

 

[Bill Cameron]

The mind boggles...

Among too many other things:

- A British fleet sails up the St. Lawrence to Lake Michigan? Niagara Falls apparently does not exist in this timeline because none of Falls-skirting canals have been built.

- A Spanish army withdraws over 1000 km from Guatemala and through Central America only to be trapped at Darien and Uraba despite the fact that no actual roads link those locations. In the OTL and up until the 20th Century, ships were the only real means of communication for the region and the only way to move large amounts of supplies and men.


Bill

 

[Falastur]

Nice TL. I'm surprised that Britain didn't demand all of Louisiana, since only a very small part of it was actually viewed as worth something, and thus only receiving north of Missouri is a bit like France getting one village in Guadeloupe instead of the whole island, but what the hey. Also, I'm not sure about Iturbide - IOTL he only took the throne because he was unable to find a European candidate, and he really tried to find one. He knew that appointing himself as Emperor wouldn't work, and he only did it in the end because the Mexicans were demanding a ruler, and he had no other options. Also not sure Augustus Frederick would accept - Mexico was largely viewed as a gold-laden but disease-ridden and somewhat uncivil backwater, regardless of the facts - but again, whatever. Enjoying it so far.

 

[Tom_NUFC]

The mind boggles...

Among too many other things:

- A British fleet sails up the St. Lawrence to Lake Michigan? Niagara Falls apparently does not exist in this timeline because none of Falls-skirting canals have been built.


- A Spanish army withdraws over 1000 km from Guatemala and through Central America only to be trapped at Darien and Uraba despite the fact that no actual roads link those locations. In the OTL and up until the 20th Century, ships were the only real means of communication for the region and the only way to move large amounts of supplies and men.


Bill

The Niagara thing completely escaped me! I'll have to rework that. I'll also have a think about the Spanish withdrawal.

 

[Tom_NUFC]

Very interesting timeline, good work, good thoughts. Waiting to see how it unfolds.

A few questions that I have are:

1.) From the posting on the ARW - I wonder if New England, especially Massachussets would fight on after the general colapse of Washington and Arnold? Would they still have the partison support of the Minutemen to resist the English. They would most likely loose in the end, but it would be interesting to see if they would fight on and if the intolerable acts would continue as a punishment.

I would guess that there probably would be some partisans who would continue for a while. To assume everyone would just surrender and accept it is probably far fetched. But in terms of numbers, they can't win.

2.) West Indies - How are the interests of the West Indies represented to Westminster? Will the West Indies be included in the CBA (Potomic City) government, send representitives, or did they already have direct representation to the Crown and Parliement in London?

The West Indies remain as they were and as they developed in OTL. Obviously as time goes on theres a lot of trade and influences with and from America. During the 20th century they unite as the British West Indies Federation, a dominion within the empire. The Bahamas, due to their proximity to America becomes a Province of the CBA.

3.) Native Americans - I take it that the First Nations are just as screwed in this timeline as they were OTL. The colonists are not bound to the Appalachians but will spread.

There are wars with the Indians, just as there were in OTL. However, the Iroquois remain allies of Britain. If you've read the Two Georges, you'll know that they have their own province in the North American Union. The same applies in this TL.

3.) Slavery - It will be interesting to see how the southern colonies react to the abololition of slavery in the British posessions. How do southerners react to the Parlimentary debates in the 1820's and enactment of the slavery abolition act in 1833? Will the southerners and the West Indies unite and rebel against the Crown? I do take it that laws enacted by Parliement are supreme.

Slavery is covered further on in the TL.

 

[Bill Cameron]

The Niagara thing completely escaped me! I'll have to rework that. I'll also have a think about the Spanish withdrawal.

Tom,

I'm not going to bother commenting on all the sociological stuff. You can spin your TL's governments, cultures, peoples, and whatnot in any way you wish all the way up to ASB.

I will suggest you look at actual geography and the levels of technology. Pay especial attention to how fast armies and fleets can move, the methods in which they move, how big they can plausibly be, how they'll have to be supplied, how fast news can travel, diseases, and things like that.


Bill

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

I note you have Mexico declaring independence in 1810, ?approximately? as OTL. Why are Spanish colonies going to declare independence when it failed for British ones?

iOTL, the (successful) American Revolution was a great inspiration for the Spanish colonies in the New World.

 

[jmberry]

I note you have Mexico declaring independence in 1810, ?approximately? as OTL. Why are Spanish colonies going to declare independence when it failed for British ones?

iOTL, the (successful) American Revolution was a great inspiration for the Spanish colonies in the New World.

Actually, the Mexicans didn't care what happened in British America. The revolts in Latin America were inspired by the French Revolution, and gained traction because of the conquest of Spain by Napoleon.