Was Yeager justified?

Well, was he?


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Was Sam Yeager justified in revealing the American involvement in the attack on the Race's colonization fleet?

In 1962, as the Race's colonization fleet approached Earth, an unidentified human-built satellite nuked part of the fleet, destroying twelve ships. Approximately two million defenseless Lizard colonists, almost all of whom were in cold sleep, were killed in the attack. The Race immediately sought to identify and severely punish whichever of the three Tosevite nuclear powers were to blame -- the US, Germany, or the USSR (the latter two were highly suspected, but of course, no one fessed up). Curious about who had committed such unprovoked mass murder, Sam Yeager investigated the matter, despite the US government sternly warning him to mind his business. Eventually, Yeager illegally obtained documentation which incriminated the US and entrusted it to the former shiplord Straha (then still residing in the US in exile from the Race after his failed coup against Atvar) with instructions to give this evidence to the Race should anything happen to Sam.

The US government attempted to assassinate Sam and wound up abducting and secretly imprisoning him indefinitely. With Sam mysteriously absent, Straha obediently -- and eagerly -- revealed the evidence to the Race in exchange for amnesty and a return to Race society. Consequently, to avoid war and settle the issue, President Earl Warren negotiated a deal with Atvar to permit the Race to nuke the city of Indianapolis (without warning the residents) as revenge for the loss of their colonists. Warren then hanged himself, leaving behind a note confirming that he alone was responsible for the attack. As part of the deal, the Lizards had Yeager freed and warned the US not to allow any "accidents" to befall him.

So what do you think? In Yeager's shoes, would you have tried to figure out who was behind the attack? And if you did, would you inform the Race?

(thread inspired by discussion here)
 
No. In a war for humanity's freedom from alien slavery, we cannot afford sympathy for the enemy beyond what is required on the battlefield.
 
No. In a war for humanity's freedom from alien slavery, we cannot afford sympathy for the enemy beyond what is required on the battlefield.

That's the thing -- at the time, none of the independent human powers were at war with the Race, and hadn't been for 18 years. Killing two million human civilians unprovoked (or even provoked, for that matter) would not be viewed as acceptable in the international community. Yeager saw the life of a member of the Race as being just as valuable as the life of a human.
 
Sam Yeager thought that it was the moral thing to do

But let's be fair it wasn't the humans who started the war

The race killed mire of us than we killed them

I find it hard to believe that the USA would do such a thing but Sam shouldn't have told a lizard especially one Which wanted to go back to the race so badly
 
That's the thing -- at the time, none of the independent human powers were at war with the Race, and hadn't been for 18 years. Killing two million human civilians unprovoked (or even provoked, for that matter) would not be viewed as acceptable in the international community.

Only because they literally couldn't beat us into the dirt without ruining the planet they came to steal. They're alien slavers, we don't have any obligation to treat with them beyond what circumstances force.

How many humans died when the Lizards nuked Berlin, Washington, Seattle, and all those other cities? They don't give a fuck about our civilians, we have nothing to gain by giving a fuck about theirs.
If the US killed two million Chinese, would it be wrong for an American to reveal that crime?

The Chinese never nuked several American cities in an attempt to enslave us.
 
Only because they literally couldn't beat us into the dirt without ruining the planet they came to steal. They're alien slavers, we don't have any obligation to treat with them beyond what circumstances force.

How many humans died when the Lizards nuked Berlin, Washington, Seattle, and all those other cities? They don't give a fuck about our civilians, we have nothing to gain by giving a fuck about theirs.

It's true that the Lizards killed millions of humans in the war, and that their invasion was entirely unprovoked. Payback could certainly be viewed as a legitimate reason for the attack on the colonists.

(I'm playing devil's advocate....)
 

stefanbl

Banned
Only because they literally couldn't beat us into the dirt without ruining the planet they came to steal. They're alien slavers, we don't have any obligation to treat with them beyond what circumstances force.

How many humans died when the Lizards nuked Berlin, Washington, Seattle, and all those other cities? They don't give a fuck about our civilians, we have nothing to gain by giving a fuck about theirs.

You don't respond to mass murder with mass murder.
 
Okay, so let's say two million Russians in 1969.

Russians still don't count. We weren't exactly pals, but they never staged a totally unprovoked invasion that killed millions of Americans, only stopped because they'd ruin their Lebensraum in taking it, and waited for a chance to do it again.

You don't respond to mass murder with mass murder.

An eye for a eye....

But that's clearly what worked with the Lizards: you can nuke cities? We can nuke them, too. You can send fleets to our home system that can wreck our planet? We can do that, too? So don't mess with us.
 
The Race invaded Earth, and they are foreigners attempting to settle on Earth soil, when Humans run the planet. They're an Imperialist Race; this isn't ET here.

So, screw them. And same to Turtledove Yeager. Should have nuked their homeworlds to dust.
 

Faeelin

Banned
The Race invaded Earth, and they are foreigners attempting to settle on Earth soil, when Humans run the planet. They're an Imperialist Race; this isn't ET here.

So, screw them. And same to Turtledove Yeager. Should have nuked their homeworlds to dust.

So, a native american would be justified in nuking Chicago.
 
It's been a while since I read the books, but if I remember things correctly, the people living under the Race were better off than those living under Germany, and maybe the USSR. The Race were aggressive Imperialists, sure, but they weren't outright evil.

Ultimately though, I don't think that Yeager should have handed over the documents because despite the attack on the fleet the US were the 'nicest' faction in that series and a possible consequence of handing over that information would have been it's destruction. If the Race attacked, then what's left for humanity? From what we've seen the Race's subject species don't get to leave their home systems, and both the Nazis and Soviets are laughably evil in this setting.
 
It's been a while since I read the books, but if I remember things correctly, the people living under the Race were better off than those living under Germany, and maybe the USSR. The Race were aggressive Imperialists, sure, but they weren't outright evil.

Ultimately though, I don't think that Yeager should have handed over the documents because despite the attack on the fleet the US were the 'nicest' faction in that series and a possible consequence of handing over that information would have been it's destruction. If the Race attacked, then what's left for humanity? From what we've seen the Race's subject species don't get to leave their home systems, and both the Nazis and Soviets are laughably evil in this setting.

Well, there's always Canada.
 
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