War-less States

Ok, so I've just finished reading Ursula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness, and the novel featured a planet in which had reached a 20th-century level of technological and social development, however, war was a foreign concept on this world. This doesn't meant that there wasn't conflict between countries, but that that conflict between countries was low-level and ongoing rather than intensive for a limited period of time. People living in border regions would mount "forays" into the neighbouring countries, but usually those living far from the borders wouldn't take place in these conflicts.

This reminds me a little of the type of warfare which took place in pre-colonial Northeastern North America where the conflict between various nations and confederacies took the form of raids largely motivated by revenge and a desire for captives rather than for a conquest of territory. War parties were small and consisted of only those who chose to go to war (often those who wanted revenge for dead relatives or those looking for the prestige of being a warrior).

However, in that case, we're talking about situations in which no individual nation comprised more than 100 000 people, population densities were quite low, and political organization hadn't yet reached the level of well-defined states. My question is basically would it be possible for there to be a culture on Earth which reaches a state level of development without developing the idea of warfare. You can treat this as an AH challenge.

To fulfill this challenge, the culture must:
(1) Have a state which rules over a well-defined territory.
(2) Have enough of a division of labour that there is a well-defined political class of rulers/government.
(3) Have at least one state with a population of at least 100 000 which is in contact with another state of the same population. These two states must have population centres (at least towns) within 100 km of each other. (The idea here is I want warfare between the two states to be physically possible and reasonably feasible.)

When I say that this culture has no idea of warfare I mean that any conflict between the two states:
(1) Does not involve a mobilization of more than 100 people in the same place at the same time.
(2) Does not result in the death of more than 100 people in any given month of any given conflict.

Blood feuds between families, clans, etc. are OK as long as they also don't involve mobilizations of more than 100 people in the same place at the same time, and don't result in the death toll of more than 100 per month.

Gatherings of more than 100 are ok as long as they don't have intent to kill (e.g. peaceful protests, riots that result in looting but not killing, etc.)

Is this at all feasible? Or is it a utopian dream? I'm curious as to what other sorts of dispute resolutions mechanisms between states could replace war...
 
The problem is that even some of the death tolls of relatively idyllic hunter-gatherer societies IOTL are greatly above those of your proposed challenge.
 
Possibly some version of the supposed "flower wars" in Central Mexico - pre-arranged limited wars between states fought solely for each side to capture sacrificial victims and to provide status for sucessful warriors? Regardless of whether or not "flower wars" really existed in this manner, it could be a model for similarly prearranged conflicts between nations, perhaps not for the purpose of human sacrifice, but fought for population control purposes, dealing with hardened criminals, or by elite armies to resolve international disputes. Limiting things to 100 participants or less would be the difficult thing to make happen.
 
How about OTL's Kingdom of Nri? Could this state be argued to have met the requirements for the OP?

If the wikipedia article is accurate, then the kingdom of NRI could totally satisfy. The one thing that's unclear in the article is how the kingdom of Nri dealt with neighboring states. Or whether there were any neighbouring states....
 
The problem is that even some of the death tolls of relatively idyllic hunter-gatherer societies IOTL are greatly above those of your proposed challenge.

Really?? Can you give an example?? I'm surprised because as far as I know hunter-gatherer societies rarely gathered in groups of more than a few hundred. Thus if more than 100 were killed on a given month, that would mean the death of a large percentage of a poulation in a month...

I should probably revise my death toll limit to 1200/year rather than 100/month as reasonable calamatous, but reasonably infrequent violent events would be fine...
 

jahenders

Banned
Nri might qualify as one such state, but part of the challenge is to have two side by side. I don't think that would work well. The Nri were able to function as they did largely because were fairly isolated and were then able to incorporate relatively small, weak neighbors. If they had abutted a powerful kingdom with very different beliefs, I think you'd have conflict.

In general, I can see very little way that you could get sizable states next to each other that are both war-less. With few exceptions, to get above a few hundred people, you likely have conflict involved. Either, one people conquers another or the people band together to resist some other aggressor.

In terms of development, you also tend to have slower development without some kind of competition/conflict. For example, for many years ancient Egypt faced no near-peer rivals, just periodic fighting with (relatively) militarily unsophisticated Libyans and Nigerians. So, their military technology stalled. They had little reason to innovate, so they didn't. Then, when they were suddenly faced with the Hyksos and others, they were outclassed because those people came from an area surrounded by war.

How about OTL's Kingdom of Nri? Could this state be argued to have met the requirements for the OP?
 
In terms of development, you also tend to have slower development without some kind of competition/conflict. For example, for many years ancient Egypt faced no near-peer rivals, just periodic fighting with (relatively) militarily unsophisticated Libyans and Nigerians. So, their military technology stalled. They had little reason to innovate, so they didn't. Then, when they were suddenly faced with the Hyksos and others, they were outclassed because those people came from an area surrounded by war.

Autocorrect? You meant Nubians, I'd guess?

Actually, Egypt regularly fought wars in and over the nearer parts of the Middle East (modern Israel+). They weren't surrounded on all sides like several other nations were, but they were hardly isolated.
 
This reminds me a little of the type of warfare which took place in pre-colonial Northeastern North America where the conflict between various nations and confederacies took the form of raids largely motivated by revenge and a desire for captives rather than for a conquest of territory. War parties were small and consisted of only those who chose to go to war (often those who wanted revenge for dead relatives or those looking for the prestige of being a warrior).

I also theorize that war was carried out in this way because with a population of less than 100,000, a huge pitched battle could wipe out a deadly chunk of the tribe's male food-providers, since none of the warriors were soldiers only.
 
You're asking for endemic warfare to translate into the era of nation-states?

I think all that's necessary is to preserve feudalism.
 

SinghKing

Banned
When I say that this culture has no idea of warfare I mean that any conflict between the two states:
(1) Does not involve a mobilization of more than 100 people in the same place at the same time.
(2) Does not result in the death of more than 100 people in any given month of any given conflict.

So- does it count if they don't send people to fight in conflicts, but instead mobilise animals (or robots) to fight conflicts for them? "Release the dogs of war"- or bears. War bears are cool...

Also, another potential option- could the two (or more) rival states potentially use tournaments, akin to the ancient Panhellenic Games, and develop them into a means to avert any 'wars' between rival states? Have it develop into a more gladiatorial affair, with each state represented by their chosen champion/s, and have them maintain a permanent 'Olympic truce' with the results of these conflicts in the arena becoming the deciding factor in resolving any conflicts between the states? To pick a potential candidate civilisation which could have potentisally adopted this sort of approach- what if the Maori people had adopted this sort of approach in the NZ Classic Period (1500-1642) in an ATL, with the rival Iwi constructing great stadiums instead of their massive Pā hill-forts, and arranging massive games between their respective champions to be the personifications of their iwis' mana, skill and prowess (with their ritual haka dances forming an integral part of the build-up to these games, of course)? Could we see the Maori Iwi engaging in 'Hunger Games' (but with grown men rather than children- after all, they weren't savages), instead of engaging in incessant warfare ITTL, thus keeping the death toll in the (now heavily ritualised and seasonal) conflicts between them down low enough to qualify as 'warless states'?
 

jahenders

Banned
Yes, Nubians -- not even sure how I could have typed Nigerians.

You're right that they DID fight periodic wars with other militarily advanced empires (Hittites, etc). My point was that, for periods of their history, they were relatively isolated from other militarily advanced groups and their technology stagnated as a result until they got a "wake-up call" by being essentially taken over.

Autocorrect? You meant Nubians, I'd guess?

Actually, Egypt regularly fought wars in and over the nearer parts of the Middle East (modern Israel+). They weren't surrounded on all sides like several other nations were, but they were hardly isolated.
 
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