Wanking The Cubaroo, or the Blackburn Behemoth

This is an offshoot of an idea pdf27 gave me in my Worst Possible Name For A Combat Aircraft thread.

So, allow me to present the Blackburn T.4 Cubaroo.
537-1.jpg


Designed and built as a coastal defence torpedo plane, it must have made contemporary jaws drop. An 88' wing span - look at the guys sheltering from the rain in the third picture - a range of 1,565 nautical miles, the ability to carry a 2,000 pound torpedo and powered by a 1,000 horse power 24 cylinder Napier Cub.
NapierCub.jpg


And all this in 1924.

The aircraft was cancelled (as was its competitor the Avro Aldershot) in 1925 when the Air Ministry decided they weren't interested in the concept after all.

So, my question is this. If they'd continued with this and developed the idea further, what sort of aircraft could coastal command have had in service in 1939 and could this have had any influence on the naval war?

I'm imagining something that looks like a scaled up Fairey Battle (the Battle had a 54 foot wingspan) with a 2000 horse power double engine, each half of which drives one part of a contra rotating propeller, so one part could be shut down in flight, thus giving twin engined safety. Straight line performance wouldn't be necessary becuase it would be operating out of the range of German land based fighters. To fit in with the Cubaroo concept, it would need range, load carrying ability and fairly decent handling for a large plane. We could also provide a fairly roomy and well heated crew cabin.

The powerplant is an interesting question. According to Wiki the contra rotating prop was invented as far back as 1909, and there are precedents for using twin inline engines with contra rotating props quite a way back. Here for example is the 3,000 hp engine of the Maachi 72 Schneider Trophy racer. Basically two V-12s joined together, each driving a single prop.
attachment.php



It would seem reasonable that the Behemoth would have a longer range than the Cubaroo, and also a higher cruising speed, but I'd be happy keeping with a 2,000 pound bombload to get the maximum patrol range and endurance.

So, all the elements are there. Can we rescue Coastal Command from the awful mediocracy of the Avro Anson?
 
The Aldershot wasn't small either - here's a photo of Roy Chadwick in front of one...
p_chadwick2.jpg


As for engines, the Napier Culverin is probably a good bet - it's a two stroke, opposed piston diesel engine designed by Junkers and for which the Air Ministry was looking for a license dating back to the 1920s. Initially it went to Vickers, and ended up with Napier just too late for war service. Diesels are naturally a good fit for a long range patrol aircraft - heavy, but excellent fuel consumption.
The Culverin of course is the distant ancestor of the Deltic - which is basically three of these arranged in a Delta configuration. It isn't too much of a stretch to see the British going for a pair of side-by-side Culverins for the Cubaroo replacement (~1500 HP), and then moving on from this to the Deltic configuration. The Deltic eventually produced over 5,000 HP in turbo-compound configuration, enough until the Turboprops and Jets come along...
 
So, provided we can get 2,000 hp on the centre line, it would be practicle to have something Whitley sized but with the drag of a Battle.

1947574.jpg
 

Driftless

Donor
I think you'd also want to re-configure the wing of the Whitely (say that fast three times ;) )

Or how about a twin engine (inline) Wellesley? It had a good sturdy airframe and some interior capacity. You might be able to fit both engines and a reasonable cooling system. I'm not so sure what mission it would fill though.....

Vickers_Wellesley_MKI.jpg
 
I think you'd also want to re-configure the wing of the Whitely (say that fast three times ;) )

Or how about a twin engine (inline) Wellesley? It had a good sturdy airframe and some interior capacity. You might be able to fit both engines and a reasonable cooling system. I'm not so sure what mission it would fill though.....

Vickers_Wellesley_MKI.jpg

I was only using the Whitley to illustrate the size. No one in his right mind would copy its aerodynamics! :eek:
 
in 1937 Fairey were working on the Monarch H24 siamese twin engine that was rated at 2000hp with contra rotating propellers. in flight one half of the engine could be shut down. If that engine had been given official Air Ministry support because it fitted the operational requirement of the time then a Battle like maritime patrol/attack aircraft in 1940 could be quite achievable.
 
I'm thinking 6 man crew for this.

a Forward spotter/Radio man
Navigator/Bombardier
Tail Gunner
Belly Gunner/ Spotter
and Two Pilots so that they could take turns in the air.

Guns for this would be probably a 0.303 for Tail,Belly and one for the forward spotter also.
Maybe four 0.303's in the wings. So it could strafe any submarines on the surface.
 
I think you'd also want to re-configure the wing of the Whitely (say that fast three times ;) )

Or how about a twin engine (inline) Wellesley? It had a good sturdy airframe and some interior capacity. You might be able to fit both engines and a reasonable cooling system. I'm not so sure what mission it would fill though.....

Mission would be submarine hunting. Coastal Command started with some Hudsons & a few Blenheims as its modern aircraft. Plus some older float planes & other relics. Three or four dozen long ranged aircraft with several depth charges, like those proposed here, would be more than useful from the start in 1939.
 
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So, allow me to present the Blackburn T.4 Cubaroo.
537-1.jpg

Every time I see that thing I want to claw my eyes from my head. It looks like something I might have drawn when I was 4 years old. I can't decide whether to laugh or cry (hysterically in either case). Did someone really, REALLY like warehouses and decide they should be able to fucking fly? Were there just not enough aviatory garden sheds in the world back then? What makes it all the crazier is that if this thread is to be believed, it was actually a fairly worthwhile maritime patrol and strike aircraft, never mind the fact that it looks like a double-decker bus having tea with a railway bridge.
I've heard it said that "if it looks right, it flies right", and this abomination puts that saying to rest with a stake through its heart. If they could be hooked to generators, the spinning of aircraft designers in their graves could no doubt power an entire city. I guess truth really is stranger than fiction.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Every time I see that thing I want to claw my eyes from my head. It looks like something I might have drawn when I was 4 years old. I can't decide whether to laugh or cry (hysterically in either case). Did someone really, REALLY like warehouses and decide they should be able to fucking fly? Were there just not enough aviatory garden sheds in the world back then? What makes it all the crazier is that if this thread is to be believed, it was actually a fairly worthwhile maritime patrol and strike aircraft, never mind the fact that it looks like a double-decker bus having tea with a railway bridge.
I've heard it said that "if it looks right, it flies right", and this abomination puts that saying to rest with a stake through its heart. If they could be hooked to generators, the spinning of aircraft designers in their graves could no doubt power an entire city. I guess truth really is stranger than fiction.
I salute your marvellous rant, sir.
It would seem that above a certain size of aircraft aerodynamics phones in sick.
 

Driftless

Donor
I salute your marvellous rant, sir.
It would seem that above a certain size of aircraft aerodynamics phones in sick.

Not only size, but mind-set too. The polar-opposite design sensibilities of several French 1930's era airplanes is kind of astonishing. You get the glass-lined suitcase with wings, such as the Amiot 143 pictured earlier; followed by the panther-sleek and graceful lines of the Amiot 350 series. How, in god's name did two such disparate planes come off the same drafting tables a few years apart?

On the flip side, I still think the immense-for-its-era Sikorsky "Russky Vityaz" has a fragile dragonfly-like grace.
 

Driftless

Donor
I think you'd also want to re-configure the wing of the Whitely (say that fast three times ;) )

Or how about a twin engine (inline) Wellesley? It had a good sturdy airframe and some interior capacity. You might be able to fit both engines and a reasonable cooling system. I'm not so sure what mission it would fill though.....

I was only using the Whitley to illustrate the size. No one in his right mind would copy its aerodynamics! :eek:

Mission would be submarine hunting. Coastal Command started with some Hudsons & a few Blenheims as its modern aircraft. Plus some older float planes & other relics. Three or four dozen long ranged aircraft with several depth charges, like those proposed here, would be more than useful from the start in 1939.

Sub hunting would work, or as a long ranger Torpedo Bomber. The Germans certainly used some larger aircraft in that role, as did the Italians with the SM.79 - very effective, but not exactly a beauty queen.
 
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