Of course Stalin would engage in this kind of tactic. He probably has an inflated ego from coming out of the war with the UK rather well off.
Wagner’s Germany: An Axis Victory TL
- Thread starter CrimsonKing
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I guess the key question us how well the strength is retained in the axis spearheads. If they maintain reserves for deep penetration it could indeed look like a destruction of (a lot of) the red army at the border. It makes sense it could play out this Way. The Soviets are better than OTL, but still havent learned their lessons.
That's because the walking cancer that was Stalin is still Stalinist ITTL and has purged and crippled his own military - and indeed his whole country - into a bloody mess.
Wow, so the Soviets go for a rigid defense? Now that's something you don't often see in a TL, but it makes sense in this case. I guess Stalin can get a propaganda boost from the initial successes of holding up the Axis, but once the lines begin to unravel, he may be facing a coup.
Have the Japanese started an offensive?
Also, how about the Soviet forces in Persia? Not sure of the exact border situation there, but perhaps the Axis could also open a new from there from Turkey/Caucasus?
Have the Japanese started an offensive?
Also, how about the Soviet forces in Persia? Not sure of the exact border situation there, but perhaps the Axis could also open a new from there from Turkey/Caucasus?
With Turkey in the ETL, Axis forces could cut off the entire Soviet army in Iran and leave them trapped there.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Even more interesting: if the Soviets crumble and Persia falls into the Axis camp, then the Germans have a dagger at the throat of British India. Now that's something that might cause some people to lose sleep in London, and the Persian-Indian could become TTLs Iron Curtain.
If they have the strength to exploit it! - That may be very hard to do with the counter attaching eating away at the panzer divisions. However if the SU has committed everything to stop the initial breakthrough, they may not have any reserve worthy once that breakthrough occurs.
This should be interesting!
Apparently they do. They have more men, better mechanisation, better airforce and better tank and plane designs.
Will we see the participation of a Spanish Blue Army in this alternative Barbarrosa, similar to the OTL Blue Division but reinforced in numbers? Their participation was justified by the guilt of Soviet Union in support the Republicans, lengthening the Spanish Civil War (many experts consider the Soviet aid very vital so that Madrid will not fall into the Nationalist hands during November-December 1936). In your alternative Spanish Civil War, it was a total stalemate between the Republican forces and the Nationalist forces (only then supported by Mussolini) until the arrival of the Nazi aid, ending the war in June 1938.
After all, Hitler himself referred to the Blue Division as "equal to the best German ones". During his table talks, he also said:
"To troops, the Spaniards are a crew of ragamuffins. They regard a rifle as an instrument that should not be cleaned under any pretext. Their sentries exist only in principle. They don't take up their posts, or, if they do take them up, they do so in their sleep. When the Russians arrive, the natives have to wake them up. But the Spaniards have never yielded an inch of ground. One can't imagine more fearless fellows. They scarcely take cover. They flout death. I know, in any case, that our men are always glad to have Spaniards as neighbours in their sector."
Later when Hitler considered an invasion of Spain to remove Franco and replace him with Agustín Muñoz Grandes, he decided against it, saying "The Spaniards are the only tough Latins. I would have a guerrilla war in my rear."
After all, Hitler himself referred to the Blue Division as "equal to the best German ones". During his table talks, he also said:
"To troops, the Spaniards are a crew of ragamuffins. They regard a rifle as an instrument that should not be cleaned under any pretext. Their sentries exist only in principle. They don't take up their posts, or, if they do take them up, they do so in their sleep. When the Russians arrive, the natives have to wake them up. But the Spaniards have never yielded an inch of ground. One can't imagine more fearless fellows. They scarcely take cover. They flout death. I know, in any case, that our men are always glad to have Spaniards as neighbours in their sector."
Later when Hitler considered an invasion of Spain to remove Franco and replace him with Agustín Muñoz Grandes, he decided against it, saying "The Spaniards are the only tough Latins. I would have a guerrilla war in my rear."
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The better equipment and doctrine I'll give you, but I thought the update said the manpower advantage went to the SU in each sector?
To be clear, the rigid defense is based on the historical Soviet strategy in 1941, which saw Stalin consistently refuse to countenance withdrawals and insist constantly on counterattacks even when they failed with enormous losses. The difference is that historically, as a result of being caught by surprise, many reserves were not fully formed at the beginning of the war, meaning that they first engaged the invaders deep inside Soviet territory. Here, since surprise is lacking, they were mobilized before the war and committed to the border defenses.
The Japanese offensive has begun, it will be covered in future chapters.
I considered a thrust into Iran, but the Iranian railroad net is still rather thin and taking the Caucasus has priority.
Well, as the British are going to evacuate the subcontinent shortly, that particular worry isn't as pressing in the long run.
The armored forces, as in OTL, are mostly committed at the outset, so there aren't many reserves and the SU does have something of a numerical advantage, but unlike historically, where a combination of bad decision-making (Hitler gave naval and air production for the west priority in the middle of July believing that the war was effectively already won, and furthermore, withheld what replacement vehicles and spare parts there were, until September IIRC) and constraints attributable ultimately to the blockade meant that replacements for losses were quite inadequate to maintain pre-war numbers, here the losses are for the most part being replaced.
Spanish participation will be grater compared to OTL, perhaps not as large as an army, but certainly a large corps at the minimum. In general, with the exceptions of Poland and Turkey, ETL allies tend to be concentrated in Army Group Right, which is why they haven't featured prominently in the narrative as of yet, but they will when the battle for control of the Ukraine is described.
I meant bigger numbers compared to OTL Axis forces in Barbarossa, not compared to the SU. I think Soviet numerical advantage is a given in any ATL Barbarossa scenario, barring some absolute crazy ones
I'm guessing then that with previously-mentioned German assistance in Japanese development and production of armored vehicles, the Japanese have managed to develop the Chi-Nu Medium Tank well in advance? It is after all, basically a Japanese-designed and built Panzer IV, and the Germans already have plenty of those, so while it's a bit improbable ample German assistance could let it happen ITTL. Of course, even with European industrial development aid, I don't think the Japanese can produce a lot of it in the short amount of time they've had to prepare for war with the Soviets.
I'm also guessing they're still using the Shinhoto Chi-Ha as their primary medium tank?
I'm also guessing they're still using the Shinhoto Chi-Ha as their primary medium tank?
It would be great if you included something on the Ukrainians and Balts in the next update @CrimsonKing
I'm not very familiar with the distribution of armored forces in the Soviet Far East, but with Stalin preparing for an invasion in the West ITTL, the Japanese may have enough tanks to roll through the depleted Soviet lines along the Manchurian border.
I think ITTL the best Japanese could do armor wise is to take their Type-89 Chi-Ro and convert them into a Jagdpanzer type tank destroyers by removing their turrets and mounting Type-90 75mm guns (which in OTL would have gone onto the Type-1 Ho-Ri) onto them, they could also probably bolt on some extra armor to the front hull as well.
The Japanese have ample supplies of both the Type-89 and the Type-90, it would not be a great TD but good enough in good numbers to take on the T-34 (my guess is most T-34s will be on the USSR's western front fighting the Germans) with side or rear shots and more than good enough to take on most other Soviet AFVs except for the KV-1.
With German assistance, I think this TD coupled with specialty aircraft for use against armor could be enough to tip the scale for Japan who won't be fighting against the best the Soviets can throw at them because they'll be fighting the Germans.
I call this design the Type-1 Ho-Ro, 1 for the year it entered service 1942 and Ho-Ro a combo of Ho-Ri and Chi-Ro. I could be wrong though about the year and the way the Japanese designate their armored vehicles.
I meant bigger numbers compared to OTL Axis forces in Barbarossa, not compared to the SU. I think Soviet numerical advantage is a given in any ATL Barbarossa scenario, barring some absolute crazy ones
This is my definite impression as well.
There are a very small number of the Chi-Nu and the Chi-Ha is the main medium tank, however the biggest improvement compared to the 1939 situation for the Japanese is that they will have air superiority most of the time and there is a much larger number of antitank guns with which to counter Soviet armor.
I think ITTL the best Japanese could do armor wise is to take their Type-89 Chi-Ro and convert them into a Jagdpanzer type tank destroyers by removing their turrets and mounting Type-90 75mm guns (which in OTL would have gone onto the Type-1 Ho-Ri) onto them, they could also probably bolt on some extra armor to the front hull as well.
The Japanese have ample supplies of both the Type-89 and the Type-90, it would not be a great TD but good enough in good numbers to take on the T-34 (my guess is most T-34s will be on the USSR's western front fighting the Germans) with side or rear shots and more than good enough to take on most other Soviet AFVs except for the KV-1.
With German assistance, I think this TD coupled with specialty aircraft for use against armor could be enough to tip the scale for Japan who won't be fighting against the best the Soviets can throw at them because they'll be fighting the Germans.
I call this design the Type-1 Ho-Ro, 1 for the year it entered service 1942 and Ho-Ro a combo of Ho-Ri and Chi-Ro. I could be wrong though about the year and the way the Japanese designate their armored vehicles.
These are interesting ideas, but I would think capacity for chassis production is still somewhat limited as a result of the short time of peace, even though the Japanese economic situation is much improved compared to OTL in an overall sense.
Actually, the situation in Ukraine is going to be the subject of the next chapter.
The Type-89 Chi-Ro had been in production since 1928 so there were plenty of them around but they are obsolete, there are also good numbers of the Type-90 75mm gun, IOTL the Type-90 gun was mounted on the Type-1 Hi-Ro in 1942 but they're were never enough of them to go around.
Here I would propose that the German influence butterfly away the Type-1 and the Type-90 guns go onto a tank that's already in production instead of a new design that won't be available in good numbers for some time.
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So perhaps several hundred of the Type 89 chassis-based tank destroyers could be operational by the summer of 1942?