What if Christianity had been established with a different Trinity? Not "The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit", but "The Father, the Mother and the Son"? What would likely end up different?
Very different Trinity
- Thread starter WilyBadger
- Start date
Well, it would be the same bollocks except with different names, and there would be no mother because Christianity is very sexist.
Maybe. But it did evolve out of Judaism, which from what I understand is a little more equal with the sexes. I blame Paul for much of the sexism and homophobia in Christianity. Perhaps if he was, say, sat on by a donkey while on the road to Damascus, and thus taken out of the picture, we could've ended up with a more equal form of Christianity?
Oh yes, Christianity is very sexist. Hence the reason we good church goers stone women who dare speak at the pulpit and claim the title of "Pastor." Blasphemy!
Anyone who even bothers to enter this thread should go straight to our last "Jesus not crucified" thread and give that a read through.
Anyone who even bothers to enter this thread should go straight to our last "Jesus not crucified" thread and give that a read through.
Dude... you could possibly tone down the antireligiousness just a bit. Just sayin'.
OK, but I can't stand how people who are religious say, "Well you could be more open minded?" WHAT??!!!?? That is the most hypocritical statement ever, because most religious people are some of the most bigoted and narrow minded people out there, at least most of them, even though they may not know it.
That's... a bit stereotyped. I'm not taking offense but I would really advise you to tone down the rhetoric before someone does take offense.
PaleHorseRiding
Banned
this would be the ASB of christianity because without Paul there is no Christianity he basically with very little help built chrisitianity
PaleHorseRiding
Banned
and this is like me saying atheist are some of the most violent immoral people in the history of this planet (soviet Union Communist china etc etc etc)
its just some religious people are like this just as some atheists are as I portray them
People come in all types and it not religion that makes them that way
Well said. This is the argument I tend to use when confronted by friends who say "all religious people are evil/immoral/start wars"
i wonder how mr dawkins and friends would react if someone argued back sensibly and reasonably with this?
Originally posted by PaleHorseRiding
It is true especially as far the communism goes: technically, communists wanted to make all people happy (in their own way of course). Those who didn't want to be "happy" had to be murdered for "greater good". Unfortunately, in the past, many monotheistic religions used similar way of thinking (crusades, burning the heretics, etc.). Thankfully, most of them got over it.
IMHO the communism and nazism were in some aspects similar to some religions (especially monotheisms): there is only ONE TRUTH and everything else is wrong. And from "wrong" there is very short way to "evil", and "evil" must by fought.
It is true especially as far the communism goes: technically, communists wanted to make all people happy (in their own way of course). Those who didn't want to be "happy" had to be murdered for "greater good". Unfortunately, in the past, many monotheistic religions used similar way of thinking (crusades, burning the heretics, etc.). Thankfully, most of them got over it.
vtmarxist, take it easy, or you will get kicked...
Believe me, this already happened to me, and for the same reason. I advise you to just put religious fanatics on your "ignore" list, and then go about your business.
And yes, there are a few of them on this site, who cannot bear the existence of agnostics (or atheists, if you are one), and will try to 'snip' you, or ban you out of existence. Just be more intelligent than they are (and I am sure you will have no problem with that
).If you are European as I am, you have to take into consideration that the US was founded by people who suffered from religious persecutions, so religion is a pretty much serious subject there...
Snake Featherston
Banned
Christianity would be more attractive, not less, because now the pagans have a counterpart to their goddesses they worshiped that is even better than the OTL Catholic veneration of Mary. So, worship of Christianity takes on a more pagan bent than OTL's Medieval Christianity. Incidentally, the Holy Spirit is grammatically female in Greek, I believe.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Wilybadger can't comprehend that the USSR and PRC were genuinely trying to create atheist states, even when Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, and Christians were all dying by the thousandfold to spread Communism.
There actually was a minor Christian sect during the 6th century that taught that the Trinity consisted of "the Father, the Mother and the Son".
They never gained any significant influence, though.
vtmarxist, take it easy, or you will get kicked...
Believe me, this already happened to me, and for the same reason. I advise you to just put religious fanatics on your "ignore" list, and then go about your business.
And yes, there are a few of them on this site, who cannot bear the existence of agnostics (or atheists, if you are one), and will try to 'snip' you, or ban you out of existence. Just be more intelligent than they are (and I am sure you will have no problem with that
If you are European as I am, you have to take into consideration that the US was founded by people who suffered from religious persecutions, so religion is a pretty much serious subject there...
Unfortunately I do not live in Europe but I a plan on moving there as soon as I can get out of America. Yes, that was my last rant so from now on I will do as you say and outwit the religious people with my intelligence.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Mistaking arrogance for intelligence is supposed to be something religious people do. Bet I could ask you the meaning of the term "hypostatic union," and you'd just say "WTF?"
Actually, early Christianity was remarkably more egalitarian when it came to relations between the sexes. In many orthodox Jewish communities men and women do not pray together. And you are right about Paul. It was Paul who told women that if they had a question regarding doctrine they should not ask the pastor, but wait, and then once home ask their husband. Simply, women were told to sit down and shut up once they stepped through the church doors. Paul, Peter, and John complained about Christian congregations being led by women. But there you had it, women were, at first, leading members of the various Christian communities.
As for Paul being responsible for Christianity, I'd have to disagree. Christianity without Paul would have been a much smaller religion certainly, but it would have survived.
And to the original point.... I'm not so certain what views the Gnostics held regarding a mother goddess, but I do know that in Canaan and among Israelites there were indications that Astaroth (Ishtar) was the consort of Jehovah. Perhaps this idea might have found its way into Christianity.
El, God the Father
Astaroth, God the Mother
Jesus, Son of El, and avatar of Jehovah
Interesting idea.
Mistaking arrogance for intelligence is supposed to be something religious people do. Bet I could ask you the meaning of the term "hypostatic union," and you'd just say "WTF?"
I am sorry, but I will be unpleasant with Snake once again. Yes, I will. I wish I could be more becoming and nicer to him, but he did not allow me to solve our differences, and showed me the cold shoulder instead, which disappointed me very much and made me a very, very sad panda. I thought Jesus had taught love to his disciples...
I just wish to point out that lecturing others for being arrogant, while calling oneself Imperator Gaius Julius Caesar is fraught with some sense of irony. That is all, and that's that. And I will not go further than that, no, and I will not say anything about the very mean allusions he made about people who do not believe in God. I cannot pray for him, but he has all my love, sympathy and consideration. I hope he will change his mind about agnostic minorities in the US, and try to show a more open mind, because these people also deserve respect
. Yes, they do!Anyway, as he told me that I was on his 'ignore' list, I will certainly not hurt his feelings
. May the light of the Elves be with you, Snake...and please note that 'snake' was not meant as an insult, it is just his name, with a capital 'S' (I do not want to get kicked again)...
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Well, this is the last I'll say on this, cause I don't want to have trouble, however I would like to clarify that the USSR and PRC were not atheist states as any atheist would define them. All they did was replace the Church with the State and replace God with Stalin/Mao. They were every based beliefs that are every bit as irrational and illogical as any religion.
Now! That out of the way.
I do think that Christianity could've thrived without Paul being involved, though it might've taken longer. This does raise a good question, though, which I'll start in another thread...