USAAF drops nukes... using Lancaster?

Hio all


Been considering an idea on the following situation. Since I'm not very good at writing drama, I'm post it as a theory.


So here it goes. It's the US, July 1944. The Manhattan project is in full swing, everything going as in OTL. Problems, ideas, solutions, etc. "We'll get there, we'll get it done". The major problem is the delivery platform, and here things were most definetly not going as planned. The programm had been pilling up problems after problems, and now it was almost dead. General Hap Arnold's best atempt to fix the problems of the dozens built so far, a major all out effort, had ended in the disaster that would be called "The massacre of Kansas", when a B-29 on a test flight crashed straight into the Wichitta plant. The combination of aviation fuel, strong wings and the sheer size of the area culminated in the destruction of most of the plant and the deaths of hundreds of skilled workers and engineers, including most of the programm's senior staff, gathered at the factory to focus on the issues. A shocked Boeing was still trying to recover and had yet delivered it's final report, but sources in the company had told the USAAF that there was no way to recover before late 1945, early 1946. At best.

The USAAF is now faced with having to turn to the "fall back" option, the B-32. But that programm too is also seriously delayed, with only a few flying. And then someone (no one ever admited who) said "What about the brit Lancaster?" and everyone in the room stared.
"What?"
"Yes, the Lancaster. They've been dropping 12.000 pound bombs, and we know they are building a bigger one. Could that plane be used by us?"
"The USAAF flying a foreign bomber? For such a top secret mission?!"
"Well... what choice to we have? Want to wait untill 1946?"
And silence fell in the room.

So... there you have it. If the USAAF wanted to keep setting it's sights on a 1945 drop, and both the B-29 and B-32 were out, could the Lancaster do it? In terms of bomb weight and size, I say yes. Both 1945 nukes were light and smaller than Grand Slam (specially Little Boy), so it's a matter of fitting. My concerns are range and altitude. Range might be solved by launching from Okinawa (plenty of time to make longer runways there) but altiture is another matter. With such a light bomb, it would able to fly higher than Grand Slam missions, but I have no idea if it would fly high enough, or how low these nukes could be dropped from. Thoughts?
 
The Lancaster was not able to make the high speed turn away that they needed to survive the blast like the B29 could. You could carry and drop with the B29 but it could not make it out of the lethal range of the blast.
 
Then it wpul
The Lancaster was not able to make the high speed turn away that they needed to survive the blast like the B29 could. You could carry and drop with the B29 but it could not make it out of the lethal range of the blast.
Then it would have to be a time fused ground burst instead of an air burst.
 
They are not going to do a time delay ground burst. 1st off that radically cuts back the effectiveness of the bomb. 2nd the bomb is going yo take an impact that they are not going to be sure it can survive and still detonate properly. Remember the time and direction of those charges are all important. Even a relatively minor impact could dislodge wires or distort the shape resulting in an incomplete detention. 3) The US was counting on a pretty high speed impact to destroy the bomb if it does not detonate. A soft landing on the ground (which was not truly possible) . Will give the enemy a nuclear weapon for free if it does not detonate. Just open it up find the area that failed and plant it where you expect the US to invade at. 4). If the could slow that enough to soft impact you probably could slow it enough to get out of the way before impact.
 
I said blast not just the fire ball of the device. The B29 was faster and more maneuverable than the Lancaster and the Lancaster was looked at but was not used because of the need to escape the blast zone in time.
 
Then it would have to be a time fused ground burst instead of an air burst.
Or there could be a parachute on the bomb.
The former may not be possible, not sure if the full initiation mechanism would survive the impact intact, and one tiny error and you get a fizzle or a dud

The latter is impossible at the time, a parachute big enough to slow a first gen A-bomb was a very difficult development, it wasn't worked out until the 50's when it was needed for laydown deliveries of big H-Bombs
 
Makes very little sense no matter how you look at it just from the fact that the US would want 100% control of all aspects of their own nuclear delivery systems.
 
I think that if this was to be seriously considered it would be the larger and faster Lancaster B.IV (Lincoln B1) that would be used after being stripped of everything that would slow it down or lower the flight ceiling.
 
I think that if this was to be seriously considered it would be the larger and faster Lancaster B.IV (Lincoln B1) that would be used after being stripped of everything that would slow it down or lower the flight ceiling.

And possibly refitted into something resembling a Lancastrian, plus Griffons.
 
A Silverplate style modified aircraft - Griffons, or even an American engine to make it more politically viable, simultaneously reinforced but lighter aircraft for speed and manoeuvrability and it may work.
However, more likely is the B32 Dominator
 
So TWO bomber programs are far far behind schedule, the complicated version AND the simpler backup aircraft. But now we are going to take an aircraft that is not really close to being up to the job other than having a large bomb load. And that is build by another country so we have no experience with it. And then we are going to modify it via a super version of silver plate. This is a very risky maneuver and will take many months if not years to pull off.
So frankly I can’t see it happening
 

marathag

Banned
Then it would have to be a time fused ground burst instead of an air burst.
Took the USAF around 10 years to make implosion bombs that would work in laydown mode rather than airbursts.

The Gun style however, is very close to what today is called a bunker buster.
This was seen early on as an advantage for taking out Soviet Command bunkers, before big megaton class weapons were made
 
Makes very little sense no matter how you look at it just from the fact that the US would want 100% control of all aspects of their own nuclear delivery systems.
Not necessarily. If it gets the bomb dropped sooner, FDR would allow the use of a British plane. The arrangement would only be for the duration of the war. That is, it's absolutely clear that the US aviation industry can produce a nuclear-capable bomber; it just might not be ready the day the bomb is. So there is no real dependence on British technology; after the bombs are dropped and the war is over, the "special equipment" will be transferred to B-29s.
 
Lighten the Lanc as far as possible. Take off all the turrets - youre going to be escorted all the way. Posiible speedups are Griffon Engines. If enough weight is saved, could you put a jet engine under ech wing for the final phase of the mission? should give ample speed. Also I think there might be some undue poeesimism as to how tough the Lanc was. Look at some of the things experts like 617 squadron did with the airframe.
 

marathag

Banned
Lighten the Lanc as far as possible. Take off all the turrets - youre going to be escorted all the way. Posiible speedups are Griffon Engines. If enough weight is saved, could you put a jet engine under ech wing for the final phase of the mission? should give ample speed. Also I think there might be some undue poeesimism as to how tough the Lanc was. Look at some of the things experts like 617 squadron did with the airframe.
Sounds like lot of work to avoid using a B-32 or B-29.

For that kind of effort, you can modify a B-24 with R-2600 and a unified bomb bay.
Even if it come down to it, the US can convert a C-69 Constellation to an offered Bomber configuration
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the XB-30
 
Even stripping et al, a Lancaster you cannot get it out of the envelope that knocks it out of the sky. The USAF had already had tested it, without specifically saying what they were looking for, when they did their tests of British aircraft models throughout the war. The Silverplate B29's were not regular ones, they were basically hand built and inspected all the way from beginning to end of their acceptance tests before the 509th took them and tested them. They would be able to find at least 10 or so ones if they needed to by the time needed.
 
I'm not sure I believe the US estimates of what it actually takes to knock down a Lanc with an expert pilot. the Americans were conservative about what you could do with a bombsr, the RAF flight crews were a bit moreadventurous
 
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