US anti Wank

[NapoleonXIV]

It occurs to me that the only nation doing a real life wank in the last 100 years is the US of A.

Reverse that, make the USA stay the estimated number 17 it was among nations when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Have it decline even more as the years progress.

(btw, will we ever get our own Wank Police)

 

[Dean_the_Young]

It occurs to me that the only nation doing a real life wank in the last 100 years is the US of A.

Reverse that, make the USA stay the estimated number 17 it was among nations when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Have it decline even more as the years progress.

(btw, will we ever get our own Wank Police)

Only?

And Britain, Germany (twice!), Russia, Israel, Mao's formation of China, NATO, or Cuba (resisting the US) don't count as wank?

Easiest way, of course, is to prevent the Constitution from being signed. Once that was done, short of direct intervention/war with Britain the US would be damn well off, and even with British intervention the US would be in a very good position.

 

[Ibn Warraq]

Only?

And Britain, Germany (twice!), Russia, Israel, Mao's formation of China, NATO, or Cuba (resisting the US) don't count as wank?

Easiest way, of course, is to prevent the Constitution from being signed. Once that was done, short of direct intervention/war with Britain the US would be damn well off, and even with British intervention the US would be in a very good position.

Agree with your reaction to "only". To your list I'd add Russia. I'm sure people in Victorian England would laugh at the idea that this backward autocracy known as Russia would within two generations become the second most powerful nation on earth and control half of Europe.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Agree with your reaction to "only". To your list I'd add Russia. I'm sure people in Victorian England would laugh at the idea that this backward autocracy known as Russia would within two generations become the second most powerful nation on earth and control half of Europe.

Already did, old boy. Right after Germany.

 

[strangeland]

It occurs to me that the only nation doing a real life wank in the last 100 years is the US of A.

I dunno I'd say that 1948-1980 would definately qualify as an Israel-wank, when they started intervening in Lebanon they ran into the massive Assad-wank going on next door in Syria.

The history of Japan since 1854 would be seen as a Japan-wank from the perspective of a timeline where Japan only does as well as, say, Indonesia or the Philippines.

China's been Sino-wanking it since 1992 or so, but we'll just have to wait and see how long they can keep it up.

OTL has been a Singapore-wank since 1958, and a Hong Kong wank since 1842

I suppose the OTL 20th century would also be considered commie-wank from the perspective of a TL where the communists hadn't siezed power during the Russian Revolution and communism was only as widely known or studied as, say Anarcho-syndicalism

 

[Shimbo]

IMO the PoD that could most seriously damage the USA would be if the Trent Affair had lead to the British declaring war. The British were at the height of their power at the time and Royal Navy was far more powerful than the US Navy. The Royal navy could have broken the US blockade of the Confederacy and established their own blockade of the USA. French recognition of the Confederacy would also have been more likely. With these problems and a two front war (Confederacy and Canada) the USA would have been in a very sticky situation indeed.

 

[stevep]

IMO the PoD that could most seriously damage the USA would be if the Trent Affair had lead to the British declaring war. The British were at the height of their power at the time and Royal Navy was far more powerful than the US Navy. The Royal navy could have broken the US blockade of the Confederacy and established their own blockade of the USA. French recognition of the Confederacy would also have been more likely. With these problems and a two front war (Confederacy and Canada) the USA would have been in a very sticky situation indeed.

Shimbo

That could have been very bad for the US, especially if they had tried fighting on too long. However even in the worse case scenario from that, barring ASB intervention, it would still develop into a major power roughly parallel to one of the great European nations.

The best way of taking it down seriously and permanently probably ended after the 1812 conflict. After that point it would need something special to get the necessary intervention to restrict the US from being a potential great power.

The US can get pounded and serious reduced in the 20thC but its a lot more difficult from that point on without our ASB friends intervening.

Steve

 

[Temujin]

Theres too much wanking going on here, I'm getting confused

(what does wank mean again?? sorry)

 

[Shimbo]

That could have been very bad for the US, especially if they had tried fighting on too long. However even in the worse case scenario from that, barring ASB intervention, it would still develop into a major power roughly parallel to one of the great European nations.

Yeah, but that was what was asked for. Of course it depends, things could get out of control, especially if Canada was seriously threatened. Considering that there was very nearly war over a relatively minor issue, imagine what response an attack on Canada would have produced. Something close to a full scale British assault would be my bet.

A major war with the British Empire at that point may well IMO have ended very badly indeed for the USA, given the economic disparity and factoring in a more powerful Confederacy (due to the breaking of the blockade) at the same time.

 

[Jasen777]

It occurs to me that the only nation doing a real life wank in the last 100 years is the US of A.

How has the U.S. been wanked in the last 100 years? I can see that charge before the last 100 years but not after.

Factors already in play such as the size and growth potential of the economy and geographical position pretty much destined the U.S. into superpower status post 1900. Europe wrecked itself twice, but even that lead to the growth of the only other superpower (probably the only one that could have realistically appeared) to oppose to U.S. in the last 60 years.

 

[Locke]

Okay, well there were many opportunities for ther US to not become powerful in the 20th century, (well, not as powerfull, i mean).

Scenario 1: Great Depression is much harder on US, they adopt isolationist policy, Germnas defeat Soviets, in an effort to somehow stop depression and despar US is decentralized, by 1950, the Axis powers control half the world, and the US has collapsed into anarchy and several warring state-blocs.

Scenario 2: Uh Idunno, Scenario 1s all I can think about right now.

 

[stevep]

Yeah, but that was what was asked for. Of course it depends, things could get out of control, especially if Canada was seriously threatened. Considering that there was very nearly war over a relatively minor issue, imagine what response an attack on Canada would have produced. Something close to a full scale British assault would be my bet.

A major war with the British Empire at that point may well IMO have ended very badly indeed for the USA, given the economic disparity and factoring in a more powerful Confederacy (due to the breaking of the blockade) at the same time.

Shimbo

What I meant was say about the worse situation for the US. It blunders into a war with Britain over the Trent and fights for 3-4 years despite growing economic and military problems. Loses the Confederacy, California as an independent state and say Washington and much of the NW territories to Canada. Deeply in debt, bitter relations with all its neighbours and serious delays in its social and economic development as a result.

Even so it will still have a very large area with a lot of agricultural and industrial strength. Furthermore, unless it clashes with Britain again it will be pretty much secure from attack. Even if worsening economic and international situations mean immigration is greatly reduced once it gets to about 50-60M population it will be a major world power with a potential at least compatible to that of say France, Britain or Germany. This will still be way ahead of the 17th ranking mentioned in the initial condition.

Steve

 

[stevep]

Okay, well there were many opportunities for ther US to not become powerful in the 20th century, (well, not as powerfull, i mean).

Scenario 1: Great Depression is much harder on US, they adopt isolationist policy, Germnas defeat Soviets, in an effort to somehow stop depression and despar US is decentralized, by 1950, the Axis powers control half the world, and the US has collapsed into anarchy and several warring state-blocs.

Scenario 2: Uh Idunno, Scenario 1s all I can think about right now.

Locke

Could come from great depression or some other event but have a Nazi type system arise in the US. Whether or not that results in a major war that will really bash US development in the 20thC.

The other alternative, which has been discussed before, is a WWI or equivalent conflict on which the US ends up on the wrong side. Say an Anglo-German alliance and the US comes in later with the Franco-Russian bloc already going down. Could be very messy, especially if fought to the end. The US would not be occupied to any lasting degree but if things went wrong for it it could go through the grinder. [Even worse have this with 1920-40's technology].

Steve

 

[ironram]

The U.S. loses a major war with the British Empire. As it has been discussed, a war of such magnitude would cripple the U. S. if it was defeated. A (more) disastrous War of 1812 could be your answer. Or have the Pig War escalate into a full-scale conflict, with the British booting the Americans out of the Pacific Northwest. It might only curb American expansion there, but the British might just get California if they do well enough. That butterflies away the U. S. territories in the Pacific (Guam, Phillippines), and means the U.S. will have to expand southward into the Carribbean, and fight pointless and draining wars with larger European powers over whose flag should be sticking out of the sand. This could go hundreds of different ways, and though it probably won't turn into a rump state (there's no POD I can think of that can guarantee that, not at the moment), it will have earthshattering ramifications.

 

[Advernt]

You are forgetting natural disasters . What if a supervolcano actually exploded in the midwest in 1900 ? Now THAT will be a crippling US antiwank.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

You are forgetting natural disasters . What if a supervolcano actually exploded in the midwest in 1900 ? Now THAT will be a crippling US antiwank.

Actually, such an explosion would harm everyone, and not just (or most) the US. The US is/was the breadbasket of the world, and when the breadbasket goes boom and global temperatures change everywhere...

 

[Susano]

The USA doesnt get hold of Louisiana, and the path westwards is thus blocked.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

The USA doesnt get hold of Louisiana, and the path westwards is thus blocked.

Had France not sold the city (which was the only thing asked for), Jefferson was going to seek an Anglo-American alliance so that he could take it by force.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Except the US was not ranked seventeen among nations, it was ranked seventeen in 1939 in terms of standing armies but the air force was still comparable to the RAF that year and the navy capable of facing any fleet on the planet.

 

[Alcuin]

Except the US was not ranked seventeen among nations, it was ranked seventeen in 1939 in terms of standing armies but the air force was still comparable to the RAF that year and the navy capable of facing any fleet on the planet.

Ahh... in that case, how about Japan does not attack either Hawaii or the Philippines, but instead pushes down the peninsula to Singapore before taking out Indonesia with its oil and then moves on to Australia. With no US involvement in WWII, there is no reason for the US to build up its army and, without any attacks, sentiment at home becomes more and more isolationist.

Britain, the Free French and the Soviet Union eventually win world war two, dividing the Japanese, German, and Italian colonies between the three of them. with The Soviets taking Korea and Japan itself along with th parts they took in OTL, Britain taking Northern Germany, Southern Italy and Libya, while France takes Northern Italy and the rest of Germany.

The result would be a US with the resources to be a superpower, but without the will.