I don't think so. He's too committed to his (whig-ish) principles. Short of Lincoln declaring himself a dictator he won't fight the federal government
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Would you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
Honestly do it, and have it be successful until radical Republican and Lincoln supporter John Wilkes Booth shoots McClellan
I think McClellan, at his very worst, would be a Boulanger type- makes lots of speeches, be all things to all people, hint strongly at the need to sweep out the corrupt government... and then chicken out every time his supporters press him to act.
I would, almost as much if this tl ended immediately after the wars end instead of chronicling the USA and world to modern dayWould you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
I'd certainly stop following this timeline if you did, at the very least.Would you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
Last edited:
As arrogant and pretentious as McClellan can be, I don’t think it would be in McClellan’s character to subvert the American Republic. While it is fairly clear that McClellan believed that the Republicans had taken a course of action that embittered both sections and policies that “will bring ruin upon us all”, McClellan never considered a coup. McClellan believed that the Union had been divided due to irrational passion, extremism and self-serving politicians, and that Northern enlightened statesmanship would bring the Union back together. McClellan grew up with Whig beliefs of rationalism, moderation, and system, and not rashness. A coup would seem out of character for him.Would you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
Yes.Would you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
please don'tWould you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
There needs to be a lot more pink, but otherwise it looks excellent.
Yes, but only because having the OTL Idaho/Montana border show up iTTL seems unlikely.
Y'all should take a chill pill, red made it clear he was joking when he put that post up.
That aside, nice update. I wonder how the rebel states west of the Mississippi are doing considering that they are isolated from most of the fighting. How long can the rebels hold New Orleans and the Mississippi?
That aside, nice update. I wonder how the rebel states west of the Mississippi are doing considering that they are isolated from most of the fighting. How long can the rebels hold New Orleans and the Mississippi?
Kill? No. Vomit on you and unfollow this thread? Absolutely.
I think the unfollow would hurt more lol.
That's a point Ethan S. Rafuse makes on his book McClellan's War. I still find the idea interesting. Like, I come from a region of strongmen and chronic instability. The idea of an American dictator seems strange. In any case, this TL is firmly on the idealistic side, so there will be no dictatorship. I just wanted to see what you all thought.
I think radically changing the TL like that at the last minute would be legendary, but I've put too much effort to not continue to a successful Reconstruction and beyond. Perhaps as an April Fools...
I actually didn't know much about Boulanger, but he seems to be the French McClellan. Boulanger's end (killing himself two months after the death of his lover) is kind of tragic. On that note, apparently McClellan's wife actually resented him. It seems that she was in love with none other than A. P. Hill, but her father forbid the marriage and pushed her to accept McClellan's proposal instead. Since we have McClellan's letters (none of which paint him in a positive light) but not hers, it does seem to me that she resented him.
I actually even have the titles for the next parts of the TL haha. Quoting myself here.
Eh, the subtitles aren't that good, but I'm satisfied with the titles.
Everytime I post an image from Victoria 2 or a meme, everybody should interpret it as a joke. I plan to continue and finish the TL come hell or high water.
Great analysis. More than a reality check, my question was made to express my simple fascination with the idea of an American dictatorship. In any case, it's sometimes hard to analyse the thought processes of many historical figures, mostly because we have the benefit of hindsight. Even if at the end the Republicans did not manage to achieve true equality (something that will be corrected here!), one can see while the changes they did achieve, chiefly emancipation, would distress someone like McClellan. I must admit, after reading McPherson's excellent Battle Cry of Freedom, I came out with a thoroughly negative opinion of McClellan. I saw him more as a caricature than an actual person. McClellan's War and other sources have given me a more fair view of the man, though I still dislike him.
(blatant self-promotion here, but I'll probably incorporate the idea of an American dictatorship in my other TL).
Some officers apparently pushed him in a couple of occasions to go to Washington and "throw the rascals out." Lincoln's cashiering of John Key was apparently partly conceived as an example to the Army and its officers. Afterwards, McClellan issued an statement making it clear that the armed forces should always observe absolute obedience to the civil authorities. Even if McClellan somehow decided to launch the coup, it's unlikely that he would have found much support in the states themselves. At worst, he would throw the North into a civil war of its own.
Don't worry, I won't.
That big Mexico is great
Huh, I thought that border was the result of a river...
Thank you.
Texas seems an interesting topic, but unfortunately my sources say close to nothing about them or the Trans-Mississippi as a whole. As for New Orleans, a naval expedition should be organized soon. How it goes is to be determined... My man Grant is taking care of the Mississippi.
I also have a fascination with an American dictatorship. However, I feel that in order to have a realistic dictatorship, it would need to happen early in American history. The US developed a tradition of respecting the votes and elections even if one was strongly against the outcome. The Civil War was of course an exception, but still. In order to have an American dictatorship, you'd need to establish the precedent for a coup or something early on like in many Latin American countries.
BP Booker
Banned
YESWould you all kill me if I ended the TL like this?
On a more serious note, I've always been fascinated by the figure of McClellan. Like Grant, I consider him a mystery. All about him screams "man of destiny" yet he turned out to be a bad general and an arrogant and petty person. I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I've been thinking about the possibility of McClellan leading a coup. Do you think that would be possible at all? Personally, I think little Mac is too timid to try anything of the sort.
DO IT
I guess that a catastrophic enough event could break such a tradition. Just to make it clear, I won't have any kind of dictatorship here. If you want an idealistic view of the US and its ideals, this is the TL for you, and as such there will be nothing of the sort.
Any chance your other TL will be the opposite? It'd be interesting to see that TL have a more unstable US with multiple civil wars.I guess that a catastrophic enough event could break such a tradition. Just to make it clear, I won't have any kind of dictatorship here. If you want an idealistic view of the US and its ideals, this is the TL for you, and as such there will be nothing of the sort.
As a practical matter, yeah. Perhaps not multiple Civil Wars, but if this TL is the idealistic take on the US, my other TL is the cynical take. Just to drive the point home, in this TL the Union will win and a different Reconstruction led by Lincoln will take place. In the other... well, anything could happen.
The Republic will be reorganized into the American Empire, for a Safe and Secure society!
Only if the New American Alliance's national flag features a fistful of lutefisk.