As it says in the title. The treaty of Trianon was the Versailles of Hungary even today it's known as the "Trianon trauma." Ranging from banning of most instruments of modern war(tanks, airplanes, warships, etc.) to reducing the Hungarian army to a max of 35,000. The terms were in many ways as harsh as Versailles, and in fact in some ways even worse with Hungary losing well over 60% of it's former territory to the new nations that surrounded it. My question is how for the Hungarians to secretly undermine the military clauses like the Germans did under Von Seeckt and how quickly.
Undermining The Treaty of Trianon
- Thread starter Germania09
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thaddeus
Donor
you need Gombos to live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_Gömbös (and a German leader other than Hitler)
think most of the German military had more affinity for Hungary and Bulgaria than Italy and Romania.
might have revived Hungarian military with covert German aid.
think most of the German military had more affinity for Hungary and Bulgaria than Italy and Romania.
might have revived Hungarian military with covert German aid.
They were slowly rearming as well as did some secret development in aircrafts, tanks and armored cars already in 20-ties. There is not much literature on Hungarian army between WWIIsin English (not in other languages as well.
Denes Bernard and Charles Kliment published this: http://www.amazon.com/Magyar-Warriors-Volume-Hungarian-1919-1945/dp/1906033889
(Kliment wrote one of first books on Slovak Army during WWII.)
I have book in Czech. It's not perfect and don't go to details but at least gives you idea on Hungarian plans to rebuilt Army from 1918 to 1939.
If feelers had been sent out do you think that Von Seeckt would have given aid? I've always wondered if Hungary could have also been part of German-Soviet military cooperation post war? Even if it's a small part I like the image of a proto-Hungarian tank doing secret exercises in the vast flatlands of Russia
And as for a Bulgarian-Hungary alliance...now that would be interesting, Neuilly doesn't require the level of restrictions and disarmament that Trianon or Versailles had so maybe something could have happened there.I knew that that they had in some ways been able to go around Trianon but not how far, most sources I can find online are vague and don't lead very far. Though I did learn about the Weiss family Csepel Works, maybe something could have happened there too? It's the lack of information that's getting me
But I'll definitely look into the book you linked. There were few prewar plans how to modernized and secretly increase strength of Hungarian Army. Hungarian politicians and diplomats worked towards this long time. Especially with target to break Small Entente. Their deals with Italians helped. Finally Air Force was officially allowed and first orders went to Italy - CR-32 fighter planes.I knew that that they had in some ways been able to go around Trianon but not how far, most sources I can find online are vague and don't lead very far. Though I did learn about the Weiss family Csepel Works, maybe something could have happened there too? It's the lack of information that's getting me
I will quickly check through my books on their pre war plans if interested.
There is also Leo Niehorster's book "The Royal Hungarian Army, 1920-1945". It can give you some ideas about that period. Same. It's not going into details and it was published in 1998. I believe he was working also with Hungarian sources.
Leo used to be active under his name on Axis History Forum, so there is possibility to address him question directly through PM.
thaddeus
Donor
I've always wondered if Hungary could have also been part of German-Soviet military cooperation post war? Even if it's a small part I like the image of a proto-Hungarian tank doing secret exercises in the vast flatlands of Russia
the three pariah states or revanchist states.
not sure whether Germany would have been able to or seen the benefit of arming the other two?
Cooperation with Italy helped out quite a bit especially with their mutual wants in the Balkans. Even though their airforce had "existed" for years just under a high level of secrecy. Yeah that would great if you could check
I actually think it's pretty funny how secretive their rearmament plans are even today The Bulgar-Hungarian alliance was just a thought you gave me
The real goal would be participation into German-Soviet rearmament. I think von Seeckt would have perhaps thought the idea had credence Oh I know
I'm just curious how much more they could have gotten away with in rearmament and how much more quickly.