Ukraine at the scene of a Nazi victory

[Real History]

I would like to know what the most likely scenario is for Ukraine.

The plans are too varied, from an independent Ukraine that serves as a counterweight against the Russians to a partially colonized Ukraine.

The Generalplan ost foresees the colonization of a small part of Ukraine but there is no information about what will happen to the rest of the territory, in fact the plan only says this:

On the question of Ukrainians.

According to the plan of the Imperial Main Directorate of Security, Western Ukrainians should also be resettled in Siberia. This provides for the resettlement of 65 percent of the population. This figure is significantly lower than the percentage of the Polish population subject to eviction...

What is the most likely scenario? Does anyone have primary documents on this issue?

 

[Popcorn]

Deported, starved, or worked to death as slave labor. Their use as a counterweight against Russia would only be temporary.

 

[Ana Luciana II]

The plans are too varied, from an independent Ukraine that serves as a counterweight against the Russians to a partially colonized Ukraine.

Despite what certain commentators will tell you there was never any serious plan to give Ukraine even limited autonomy whilst it was under Nazi occupation. The only major figure in NSDAP who advocated granting independence to the Ukraine was Alfred Rosenberg whose authority as Minister for the Eastern Territories was always theoretical.
The administrators on the ground in Reichskommissariat Ukraine had genocidal intent. Koch the Reichskommissar purposefully made his capital in Rivne rather than Kyiv to dissociate it from Ukrainian history. The Germans forced the Ukrainians to keep working on the hated collective farms. Indigenous language and culture was suppressed.

The Generalplan ost foresees the colonization of a small part of Ukraine but there is no information about what will happen to the rest of the territory, in fact the plan only says this:

Hardly a small part. Western Ukraine here meaning everything west of the Dneiper. [EDIT: So I was wrong here GPO called for only the settlement of the westernmost provinces, nevertheless I consider an attempt to push the frontier to the Dneiper an inevitability.] That is millions of people. Also keep in mind that Ukraine’s capabilities as a breadbasket never materialised during the war and the pre-existing agricultural infrastructure simply will not be able to support the pre-war population and German settlers. Mass starvation is an inevitability.
Either way there is going to be genocide on a scale that will dwarf even the Holodomor. The vast majority of Ukrainians would be killed, starved, or deported to make way for the incoming waves of German settlers.
Those that do survive may come to envy the dead. Those that survive will be enslaved, a percentage of the country’s women might be declared Aryan and married off to Germanics (Hitler had a weird obsession with Ukrainian women, look it up), the Ukrainian language would be the patois of uneducated field serfs.

 

[Real History]

Despite what certain commentators will tell you there was never any serious plan to give Ukraine even limited autonomy whilst it was under Nazi occupation. The only major figure in NSDAP who advocated granting independence to the Ukraine was Alfred Rosenberg whose authority as Minister for the Eastern Territories was always theoretical.
The administrators on the ground in Reichskommissariat Ukraine had genocidal intent. Koch the Reichskommissar purposefully made his capital in Rivne rather than Kyiv to dissociate it from Ukrainian history. The Germans forced the Ukrainians to keep working on the hated collective farms. Indigenous language and culture was suppressed.

Hardly a small part. Western Ukraine here meaning everything west of the Dneiper. That is millions of people. Also keep in mind that Ukraine’s capabilities as a breadbasket never materialised during the war and the pre-existing agricultural infrastructure simply will not be able to support the pre-war population and German settlers. Mass starvation is an inevitability.
Either way there is going to be genocide on a scale that will dwarf even the Holodomor. The vast majority of Ukrainians would be killed, starved, or deported to make way for the incoming waves of German settlers.
Those that do survive may come to envy the dead. Those that survive will be enslaved, a percentage of the country’s women might be declared Aryan and married off to Germanics (Hitler had a weird obsession with Ukrainian women, look it up), the Ukrainian language would be the patois of uneducated field serfs.

The Generalplan ost definitely did not intend colonization up to the Dneiper River, the only areas planned for colonization were Zhytomyr, Kamenets-Podolsk and Vinnitsa:

If we analyze the preliminary target of 45 million inhabitants of German origin, it turns out that the local population of the territories in question will in itself exceed the number of settlers. On the territory of former Poland, there are supposedly about 36 million people [4]. Approximately 1 million local Germans should be excluded from them (Volksdeutsche). Then there will be 35 million people. The Baltic countries have 5.5 million inhabitants. Obviously, the general plan "Ost" also takes into account the ex-Soviet regions of Zhitomir, Kamenets-Podolsk and partially Vinnytsia as colonization territories. The population of the Zhytomyr and Kamenets-Podolsk regions is about 3.6 million people, and Vinnitsa - about 2 million people, since a significant part of it is included in the sphere of interests of Romania. Consequently, the total population living here is about 5.5 to 5.6 million people. Thus, the total population of the regions considered is 51 million. The number of people subject to eviction, according to the plan, should in fact be much higher than anticipated. Only when you consider that approximately 5-6 million Jews living in this territory will be liquidated even before the eviction takes place, can you agree with the figure mentioned in the plan of 45 million local residents of non-German origin. However, it can be seen from the plan that Jews are also included in the 45 million people mentioned. It follows, therefore, that the plan is based on an obviously incorrect calculation of the population.

In addition, it seems to me that the plan does not take into account that the local population of non-German origin will multiply very quickly over a period of 30 years... Taking all this into account, it must be assumed that the number of residents of non-German origin in these territories will significantly exceed 51 million... Human. It amounts to 60-65 million people.

Therefore, the conclusion itself suggests that the number of people who must remain in the indicated territories or be evicted is significantly higher than that foreseen in the plan. Consequently, even more difficulties will arise in carrying out the plan. If we take into account that 14 million local residents will remain in the territories under consideration, as provided by the plan, then between 46 and 51 million people must be evicted. The number of residents to be resettled, set by the plan at 31 million, cannot be considered correct. More notes on the plan. The plan envisages the resettlement of racially undesirable local residents in western Siberia. At the same time, percentage figures of individual peoples are given and therefore the fate of these peoples is decided, although there is still no exact data on their racial composition. In addition, the same approach has been established for all peoples without taking into account whether and to what extent the Germanization of the respective peoples is envisaged, whether they are peoples friendly or hostile to the Germans.

So, although during the war the Nazis denied the possibility of independence for Ukraine it seems an inevitable question, especially considering that German colonization will not go very far considering the demographics that Germany had at that time.

 

[Ana Luciana II]

The Generalplan ost definitely did not intend colonization up to the Dneiper River, the only areas planned for colonization were Zhytomyr, Kamenets-Podolsk and Vinnitsa:

My mistake, in the documents for Generalplan Ost it doesn’t call for the clearance of the West Dneiper, but it is an inevitability IMO.

So, although during the war the Nazis denied the possibility of independence for Ukraine it seems an inevitable question, especially considering that German colonization will not go very far considering the demographics that Germany had at that time.

It will be a non-starter in any National Socialist state. The ultimate plan was to exterminate or Germanise as many Ukrainians as possible. Nazism as an ideology was prefaced on the destruction of Slavic cultural identities in the East. Even if there isn’t mass settlement of Ukraine there is no way they’ll allow even limited independence. Because allowing the Slavs autonomy runs counter to everything the Nazis believed. None of the leading Nazis supported such a move, Slavophiles among NSDAP tended to be lower-ranking and less influential, and I see no reason this would change in a triumphant Third Reich. This kind of arrangement, with an independent Ukraine as a check on Russia, could happen in Weber’s Germany but not in Hitler’s Germany.

 

[CHKeeley]

Do you happen to have a source on hand? I’m not at my computer and so don’t have access to the document. I will say that this contradicts almost everything I’ve read about Nazi plans and practice in the East.

View attachment 851313
This is from Dallin’s landmark “German Rule in Russia” and talks about the policy towards Ukraine being one of complete subjugation of the population and an absolute and total refusal to grant concessions to Ukrainian aspirations for nationhood. It was to be a brutal settler colony, where as Erich Koch says, the Ukrainians were to be no better than ‘negroes in Africa.’ What you are saying is much closer to Rosenberg and the Ostministerium’s hopes for a post-war Ukraine. They were sidelined and ignored at almost every turn in favor of crushing Ukrainian nationalism and keeping the Slavs in firm subjugation with the hope of eventually planting German roots upon the land.

View attachment 851314
Berkhoff’s “Harvest of Despair” has this to say. Even Rosenberg was forced against his judgement to announce that the entire territory was to be colonized by Germans. As it says, all of Ukraine is to become a clean slate for German settlement.

The SS established an estate at Hegewald in Ukraine and undertook major plans for colonization in Zhitomir province and in the lower Dneipr and Crimea despite those territories having never been part of the former Polish Republic. If what you say was the case, these actions would make no sense.

This is much briefer than I wanted it to be since as I said I’m typing this on my phone, but I’d love to hear the relevant citation since this just doesn’t seem to be the case at all.

View attachment 851793

Once again, Dallin comes in handy. The GPO was one specific plan, with multiple revisions and iterations, produced by a bureaucratic sub-grouping of a single arm of the sprawling Nazi apparatus. In this case, largely a Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) work group. As such, we can’t claim definitively that ambiguities in the plan necessarily mean concrete policy one way or another: the lack of reference to colonization efforts in other parts of Ukraine by no means mean there will be a self-governing indigenous state or states in the territory. I say ambiguity because nowhere in the document does it even remotely imply that Ukrainian self-government would be implemented. But the quote above also shows that the GPO plans were largely ignored by 1942 and the entire region was scheduled to be Germanized as soon as possible. “Within 20 years.” There’s absolutely no reason to suspect an independent Ukrainian state would be constructed under Nazi aegis given everything we know about implemented policy and treatment, and the visions of the vast majority of leading Nazi officials and policymakers.

I’ll qualify this by saying that I don’t believe that they could effectively Germanize the region given near insurmountable difficulties. But that’s doesn’t mean they won’t seriously try and it certainly doesn’t mean Ukrainian nationhood.

A couple of comments I’ve made previously on this exact issue of Generalplan Ost and settlement plans for Ukraine. The actions and intentions of Nazi leaders with actual power over policy making in Ukraine (hint: not Rosenberg) all intended for Ukraine to be entirely cleansed of Slavs and settled by Germans “within 20 years”. This was fantastical and surely would not have worked out that way, but the intention at the highest levels was not for small parts of Ukraine to be settled but the entire country. And I’m sure the attempt would be made.

 

[Monk78]

Some Nazi leaders can carve out big fiefdoms in the East and may be semi independent of Berlin in a generation or so

 

[The Wooksta!]

Corpses, with a smattering of slaves and "comfort women".

 

[SodaMan1996]

The Nazis were genocidally anti-Slav.

It goes without saying that if Nazi Germany won WWII, most Ukrainians would have been exterminated. Any survivors would have been enslaved and Germanized, their culture and history being violently stamped out.

CalBear (who famously did a lot of research for his AANW timeline) has pointed out several times on this site that Generalplan Ost called for the murder of 65% of Ukrainians, 85% of Poles, 75% of Belarusians, 50% of Czechs, and 75% of Russians. Entire cities would have been demolished BY HAND (this was called "extermination through labor").

The areas forcibly depopulated by the Nazis would then have been settled by the Germans.

The Nazis were evil incarnate. Their cruelty and savagery was literally unprecedented in human history.

 

[Cryptic]

I would like to know what the most likely scenario is for Ukraine.

My guess is that the Germans would be thinking "Ukraines" and not "Ukraine".

IOTL, the French and British colonial empires practiced a divide and conquier approach with various holdings that included exaggerating su b ethnic differences in subject peoples- to simply creating differences / divisions out of thin air- or almost so.

For example, the French recruited Annamese, Tonkinese and Mekongnese regiments from the Vietnamese population. Annamese (homeland of the Vietnamese kings sans Chinese and Cambodian influences- well, it is said) were then elevated to a "martial race" ala British with Sikhs and Rajaputs.

All that aside, the Germans go "Ukraines" for convenience and easier control. There are real differences between eastern and western Ukrainians. In the Polish Ukraine war, the two Ukraines fielded independent armies and after hearing one too many anti Russian diatribes, the Eastern Ukrainians quit fighting offensively. So... the Germans don't need to try all that hard in creating differences.

- Trans Carpanthian Republic: Plus sized and consists mainly of Ruthenians and other mountain ethnic groups. May need to gift part of it ti Slovakia- but by no means all of it. German protectorate.

- West Ukraine: Capital is Lvov- no... Lviv... what ever. Size to be determined. Germans heavily considering including all districts where Ukrainian is the majority language. With Banderites firmly in control, Western Ukraine is the most pro German / Nazi republic. Sure, they wanted Kyiv as well- but the Germans need them leashed and many locals will not accept Bandera.

- "Free" City of Odessa: Sure, it could be placed in West Ukraine, but Odesa Russophone and the Banderites need to be on a leash. City is placed under Romanian control as a gift.

- Ukraine: Central part of the nation. Kyiv is the capital. Functions as a German colony- and sees the large and ongoing influx of German settlement.

- Crimea: Tatars are uhmm.... discovered to be "lost Aryans" and made into a martial race (hopefully eternally grateful to The Reich- right?). Tatars are then given control over the Russophone population. Crimea then experiences a good influx of German settlers.

- Donbass Governate: Under direct German commercial control and exploitation via local collaborators.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

My problem with the above is that Generalplan Ost seems to be way too logistically impractical/infeasible to carry out in it's entirety. It's just not realistic and even the Nazis will figure that out sooner or later.

It's going to get toned down a bit if the Germans are winning the war.

Definitely going to still be a lot of death and destruction, but I think the Nazis will see the value of the Slavic labor force and settle for profiting from serfdom and/or vassalage rather than going all in on genocide.

Also,

The Nazis were genocidally anti-Slav.

It goes without saying that if Nazi Germany won WWII, most Ukrainians would have been exterminated. Any survivors would have been enslaved and Germanized, their culture and history being violently stamped out.

The areas forcibly depopulated by the Nazis would then have been settled by the Germans.

The Nazis were evil incarnate. Their cruelty and savagery was literally unprecedented in human history.

This is a vast overgeneralization. Nazis were only Nazis when they wanted to be Nazis. Nazi leadership handed out honorary Aryan status like free candy, allied with Italians, Asians, and Muslims, and were more than willing to overlook ideology on countless occasions when it was practical, convenient, and/or profitable.

 

[Kaiser of Brazil]

My problem with the above is that Generalplan Ost seems to be way too logistically impractical/infeasible to carry out in it's entirety. It's just not realistic and even the Nazis will figure that out sooner or later.

The costs of the plan mainly came from the planned infrastructure and settlement of the region, the construction of the Autobahn networks and the railroads alone was a staggering cost. However, killing people was certainly feasible and the Nazis were already doing so by killing millions even with the overwhelming majority of their war economy aimed at, well, a world war.

Starving millions is really not a difficult feat, the hunger plan called for the seizure of farmlands and deliberate starvation and destruction of cities by cutting off supplies and working people to death. The plan expected a short-term death of over 20 million people and that's in the immediate aftermath of the war.

Considering the Nazis faced no trouble in killing millions in 6 death camps over a period of pretty much 2 years, the genocide won't be the hard part.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

The costs of the plan mainly came from the planned infrastructure and settlement of the region, the construction of the Autobahn networks and the railroads alone was a staggering cost. However, killing people was certainly feasible and the Nazis were already doing so by killing millions even with the overwhelming majority of their war economy aimed at, well, a world war.

Starving millions is really not a difficult feat, the hunger plan called for the seizure of farmlands and deliberate starvation and destruction of cities by cutting off supplies and working people to death. The plan expected a short-term death of over 20 million people and that's in the immediate aftermath of the war.

Considering the Nazis faced no trouble in killing millions in 6 death camps over a period of pretty much 2 years, the genocide won't be the hard part.

Holocaust killed about 11 million people.

Ukraine's population was 42 million in 1941.
Belarus was 9 million.
Lithuania was 2.5 million.
Latvia was 2 million.
Estonia was 1.5 million.
Poland was 35 million.
Czechoslovakia was 11 million.
Russia West of the Urals (excluding Ukraine and Belarus) was at least 100 million.


You'd need 18 Holocausts in a row to clear out Eastern Europe. That's just not logistically feasible.

 

[TheSpectacledCloth]

Holocaust killed about 11 million people.

Ukraine's population was 42 million in 1941.
Belarus was 9 million.
Lithuania was 2.5 million.
Latvia was 2 million.
Estonia was 1.5 million.
Poland was 35 million.
Czechoslovakia was 11 million.
Russia West of the Urals (excluding Ukraine and Belarus) was at least 100 million.


You'd need 18 Holocausts in a row to clear out Eastern Europe. That's just not logistically feasible.

Ever heard of the Hunger Plan?

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Ever heard of the Hunger Plan?

Hunger Plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes. And under the Effects section, it killed 4 million people in 4 years.

It's going to take 50 years to work. Except it wouldn't work because you can't steal agriculture if you kill the workforce.

Which goes back to the main argument. Slavic labor is too valuable to the Nazi regime for Generalplan Ost to be carried out to the letter. It's not practical, nor realistic, nor profitable.

The Nazi economy relied almost entirely on looting conquered territory. You exterminate the workforce, you run out of loot.

 

[GhostTrader]

You'd need 18 Holocausts in a row to clear out Eastern Europe. That's just not logistically feasible.

You said that, but considering the Holocaust was launched in the middle of the war, and also that Estonia and Czechoslovakia are the only 2 nations in your list with casualties below 10% of their pre-war, I would argue give the Nazis a few years of relative peace, and Eastern Europe would be a lot emptier. Even if the Generalplan Ost is illogical in any means, what government, especially a totalitarian one, did a purely logical policy ?

 

[Remitonov]

Holocaust killed about 11 million people.

Ukraine's population was 42 million in 1941.
Belarus was 9 million.
Lithuania was 2.5 million.
Latvia was 2 million.
Estonia was 1.5 million.
Poland was 35 million.
Czechoslovakia was 11 million.
Russia West of the Urals (excluding Ukraine and Belarus) was at least 100 million.


You'd need 18 Holocausts in a row to clear out Eastern Europe. That's just not logistically feasible.

Do you think the Nazis cared for feasibility? They launched the Holocaust in the midst of the war, at a time when their logistical network is already way past its limits in Eastern Europe. They sure as hell would have tried in peacetime.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Do you think the Nazis cared for feasibility?

In some cases they did, in some cases they didn't.

Nazis were not ideologically rigid. There were many instances throughout their rule when Nazis threw ideology out the window in the name of practicality.

And as I said in other posts, the Nazi economy relied entirely on looting conquered territory. Doing this in the long term requires a large, cheap labor force. Nazi leadership needs the Slavic people if they want their empire to have a functioning economy, plain and simple.

It might take them a few years to figure that out, but eventually economic pressure from a tight labor market and high demand in Germany for products will lead to the preservation of the Slavic people. They'll be brutally oppressed serfs, but they won't be wiped the map.

 

[Real History]

A couple of comments I’ve made previously on this exact issue of Generalplan Ost and settlement plans for Ukraine. The actions and intentions of Nazi leaders with actual power over policy making in Ukraine (hint: not Rosenberg) all intended for Ukraine to be entirely cleansed of Slavs and settled by Germans “within 20 years”. This was fantastical and surely would not have worked out that way, but the intention at the highest levels was not for small parts of Ukraine to be settled but the entire country. And I’m sure the attempt would be made.

I'm sure the ideal scenario for the Nazis would be a completely Germanized Ukraine, but they simply couldn't ignore the demographic realities of Germany. Even the colonization of Poland was a challenge for them.

Several German post-war plans were published on the Axishistory forum, none of which mention the colonization of most of Ukraine:

Those of you who can read German may wish to check out this site:

http://lausche.tripod.com/planung.html

The 1996 MA thesis by Karsten Schulz "Nationalsozialistische Nachkriegskonzeptionen für die eroberten Gebiete Osteuropas vom Januar 1940 bis zum Januar 1943", presented at the Berlin Technical University Institute for Political Science, contains a detailed exposition of the various versions of the Generalplan Ost, as well as of other, competing plans for German rule over the conquered Soviet territories put forward by Rosenberg's Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, the German Labour Front, and some individuals.

It appears that there were six versions of the Generalplan Ost, which need to be carefully distinguished from each other in terms of what they actually propose. Four of them were prepared by the planning staff of the Reichskommissariat für die Festigung deutschen Volkstums (RKF), headed by Professor Konrad Meyer-Hetling. and two by the RSHA, specifically by Standartenführer Ehlich, head of Gruppe III B Volkstum of Abteilung III Sicherheitsdienst-Inland.

The six variants were:

1. The Generalplan of the RKF, dating from about January 1940. This is preserved in a document bearing the title "Planungsgrundlagen für den Aufbau der Ostgebiete", and deals only with the planned germanisation of the annexed western Polish territories (Danzig-Westpreußen, Wartheland, Zichenau, Suwalki, Ost-Oberschlesien).

2. Generalplan Ost of the RKF, dated 15 July 1941. The plan itself has not been found, and is known only from a covering minute from Meyer-Hetling to Himmler with the above date. Judging from material contained in the unpublished autobiography of Professor Meyer-Hetling, in addition to the annexed territories included in the Generalplan, it proposed German settlement in the east of the Generalgouvernement, thereby encircling the ethnic Polish population. The estimated settler requirement is 4.55 million persons over 30 years.

3. Generalplan Ost of the RSHA, dated toward the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942. The plan itself has never been found, but its main points can be reconstructed from the detailed (and highly critical) commentary on it by Dr Erhard Wetzel of Rosenberg's Ostministerium, dated 27 April 1942.

This is the plan that is usually meant when the Generplan Ost is referred to in secondary literature. It is the plan that, judging from Wetzel's comments, proposed the resettlement in West Siberia of 31 million (including 5-6 million Jews) of the estimated 45 million non-German inhabitants of the specific areas designated for German settlement, over a period of 30 years. The plan calls for the settlement of 10 million Germans on the territory, consisting of Danzig- Westpreußen, Wartheland, Oberschlesien, Generalgouvernement, South Ostpreußen, Bialystok, the Baltic States, Ingermanland, Weißruthenien and some areas in Ukraine.

Wetzel is highly critical of the RSHA plan and clearly considers it infeasible, although he supports the concept of germanisation of territory and the deportation of population groups considered hostile to Germany. He proposes alternative actions, which are most probably to be regarded as representing the views of Rosenberg. There is no indication that this plan was ever given official approval in full by either Himmler or Hitler.

4. The Gesamtplan Ost of the RSHA. The existence of this plan can only be inferred indirectly; it is referred to in a letter of 12 June 1942 from Himmler to Ulrich Greifelt, head of the RKF. It also seems that certain of the comments made by Wetzel in April 1942 refer to this extended plan rather than the original RSHA plan.

The Gesamtplan Ost of the RSHA extended the area of proposed German settlement to the line Lake Ladoga - Valdai Heights - Briansk, and added as settlement areas Zhytomyr, Kamianets-Podilsk and parts of Vynnytsia.

5. The later Generalplan Ost of the RKF. This is known from a document of 71 pages dated 28 May 1942. In addition to the germanisation of the Polish territories annexed to the Reich, it proposes the establishment of three "borderlands" (Marken), Ingermanland, Narew-West Lithuania, and Gotengau (Crimea and Kherson province), and of 36 settlement bases, 14 in the GG, 14 in Ostland, and 8 in Ukraine. The period for the proposed resettlement is 25 years. The plan also gives a detailed estimate of the costs of the proposed ethnic German settlement, totals of 45.7 billion RM for the annexed Polish territories and 20.9 billion for the borderlands and bases, the greater part of which is to be raised by borrowing in the private capital market.

Nowhere does this plan talk of deporting any part of the existing non-German population to Siberia. Rather, it proposes the resettling of the population of land required for German settlement on alternative kolkhozes and sovkhozes within the area under German rule; the rationale for that mild treatment is stated to be the need to retain the cooperation of the native population. The previous method of "evacuation" is explicitly rejected. The desired level of germanisation will be reached when 50% of the population of the borderlands is ethnically German, and 25-30% of the population of the bases. The process of germanisation is estimated to take 25 to 30 years.

6. The "Generalsiedlungsplan" (global settlement plan) of the RKF. This is known from a preliminary draft dated 23 December 1942, written by Greifelt. There appears never to have been a final draft.

The plan defines a "Volksraum" with seven settlement areas: Luxemburg, Lorraine, Alsace, Upper Carinthia, Lower Styria, Bohemia-Moravia and the Incorporated Eastern Territories annexed from Poland. To that is added an "Ostsiedlungsraum" divided into six future Gaus, Litzmannstadt, Krakau, Lemberg, Lublin, Warschau und Bialystock. The Baltic area is increased through the addition of Pleskau (Pskov) and Ingermanland (the latter atributed to Estonia), but is not considered part of the "Ostsiedlungsraum", for unknown reasons.

The plan proposes a future population of around 23.1 million persons in the settlement areas of the Volksraum and in the Ostsiedlungsraum, consisting of an existing ethnic German population of 5.3 million, a residual germanised native population of 5.4 million, and 12.4 million German immigrants. As the existing population is 36.3 million, of which 5.6 million are already German(Reich citizens, ethnic Germans, settlers) and 5.4 million are germanisable natives, the plan implies the deportation of around 25 million persons, although such a deportation is not explicitly mentioned.

The same applies to the Baltic area. Of a population of 7.2 million, of which hardly any are considered German, 2.1 million are considered germanisable; the remaining 5.1 million disappear. 3.1 million German settlers are required to bring the total population back up to 5.2 million.

Thus, the deportation of a total of around 30 million non-Germans out of the settlement areas of the Volksraum, the Ostsiedlungsraum and the Baltic area is implied in the plan.

On 12 January 1943, Himmler demanded the inclusion of the Baltic area, the Crimea and Tauria in the "Ostsiedlungsraum". However, the events surrounding the fall of Stalingrad put all further planning activity on hold.

Source

 

[CHKeeley]

I'm sure the ideal scenario for the Nazis would be a completely Germanized Ukraine, but they simply couldn't ignore the demographic realities of Germany. Even the colonization of Poland was a challenge for them.

Several German post-war plans were published on the Axishistory forum, none of which mention the colonization of most of Ukraine:

Yes I agree, I don’t think it was feasible and what was attempted IOTL was an abysmal failure. With that said, I think a serious attempt will be made with all that entails.

As I mentioned in my post, post-war plans put to paper by bureaucratic work groups was not the fundamental method by which Nazi Germany carried out its policies. More than anything, those were proposals put forward at different times for their superiors to wave under Hitler’s nose or to implement in some small part over their specific area of jurisdiction. Bureaucratic fragmentation was the order of the day in the Reich, and the plans do not need to mention the Germanization of all Ukraine for that to have been a serious goal of the Nazi state. Policies were carried out by “working towards the Führer” on the ground day-to-day. Erich Koch wasn’t following the directives of an RSHA plan. He was Germanizing the country on his own initiative in a haphazard way. The evidence shows that was his stated intention, and he tried to do so in the span of time he was in power there.

I think the point is that we cannot put too much stock in any number of plans drawn up by various agencies because Nazi racial policies were by and large not carried out by following grand plans set to paper. There is no piece of paper declaring a decision exterminate the Jews of Europe and proposing a plan to do so, for instance, but lots of localized documents implementing policies towards that end and statements by officials declaring their intent to do so at various times. So we don’t need a plan actually step-by-step proposing the clearing of the land of Slavs in order for that to know that was a goal of the Reichskommissar’s administration.