UCS Clarification Conference

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I've decided what this needs is a bit of fascism. I'm going to put together a colour scheme based on suggestions here and preserving as much of the existing UCS as possible. I shall then publish it as the start of a thread which will be filled up with maps (not just Worlda maps) using this colour scheme of both OTL and ATLs.

This new Thandean Colour Scheme (TCS) is not going to be forced on anyone but I'm going to push the boat out and see if we can get people rallying around it. People are of course more than welcome to start their own colour schemes.

And to answer the obvious question: Russia will be gold...and green. Stay tuned!

Thank Thande and his lord Ian. I fully support your dictatorial powers

 

[Thande]

Excellent point made about fixing colour values to prevent all that alarming fading we've seen. That will be incorporated.

 

[Thande]

Well, here's my attempt. I still have a couple of colours left over if you want
to argue for the inclusion of your favourite country.

I have eliminated territory shading to avoid taking up those colours, and besides
no-one agrees whether to make it lighter or darker.

I have included hypothetical ATL countries that keep showing up in the ATL
maps thread, like I have kept saying repeatedly we need to consider,
not that anyone listens.

I have tried to preserve as much of the existing UCS as possible although
I have had to change a few colours just out of necessity. Thanks to everyone
for their suggestions and I have incorporated substantial parts of them.

Basically I just want comments and people to point out any really obvious boo-boos before this goes live.

 

[Nekromans]

Personal suggestion: Brazil still irks me, it looks like it... doesn't fit. Too glary. plus, it's going to be situated next to a bunch of similarly-coloured uninhabited Amazonas.

My personal suggestion, on experimentation - RGB 64/255/64 ?

 

[Plumber]

Personal suggestion: Brazil still irks me, it looks like it... doesn't fit. Too glary. plus, it's going to be situated next to a bunch of similarly-coloured uninhabited Amazonas.

My personal suggestion, on experimentation - RGB 64/255/64 ?

Hmmm, let's see then...

TCS!


I kept in the territorial colors because I thought they were useful and didn't feel like removing them.
I kept in a few countries' colors that were removed for no real reason (Argentina, Hungary, Oman, Mali, etc.)
I used the old Tunisia/Carthage color since it was supposed to be changed to differentiate Tunisia from Oman.
Yemen has Iori's new color for it (it had vassals in the past and so needs a color)
And before someone asks, Uzbekistan has a color because of the Timurids and Yucatan/Guatemala because of the Mayans.

Placeholders colors:
Quebec, Vinland - Self-explanatory
Algeria - French Dominion
New Morocco - The Guineas besides Fr. Guinea
New Germany - Uruguay

Only complaints about the TCS
1. Gold China had been accepted I thought. There may be Russian Goldilocks, but no one was willing to stand up for the awful lime color. I left a bit of Gold China in the middle of everything.
2. Communist China should be the color of the 2nd most prominent Commie state I think.
2. Sardinia-Piedmont looks too close to France, so it should maybe get the ACS Italian Green instead.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Hmmm, let's see then...

TCS!

I kept in the territorial colors because I thought they were useful and didn't feel like removing them.
I kept in a few countries' colors that were removed for no real reason (Argentina, Hungary, Oman, Mali, etc.)

I suggest removing them. That way we can first see what the TCS looks like on its own.

I used the old Tunisia/Carthage color since it was supposed to be changed to differentiate Tunisia from Oman.

I agree with this.

Yemen has Iori's new color for it (it had vassals in the past and so needs a color)

I agree to some extent, but see my above comment. Leave it out for now, just to see what TCS looks like on its own.

And before someone asks, Uzbekistan has a color because of the Timurids and Yucatan/Guatemala because of the Mayans.

Why give the Mayans a colour at all? Were they a centralised state? Did they hold vassalage over other tribes and nations? Why give them a colour, because their vassalage is irrelevent when the other tribes don't have coherent nation-states. Guatemala has not, does not, and will not need a colour. Timurids I can agree with to some extent, but I shall repeat myself; leave it off for now.

Only complaints about the TCS
1. Gold China had been accepted I thought. There may be Russian Goldilocks, but no one was willing to stand up for the awful lime color. I left a bit of Gold China in the middle of everything.

That doesn't work at all. Gold China is far too close to Japan, and now S. Korea, especially when showing Japanese invasions of China or Chinese vassalage over Korea at any time. I strongly disagree with gold China.

2. Communist China should be the color of the 2nd most prominent Commie state I think.

I can't think of a reason not to agree with this.

2. Sardinia-Piedmont looks too close to France, so it should maybe get the ACS Italian Green instead.

Aaaaaand agreed. We need a green Italian state.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Here it is without all of Plumber's additions. I really think Korea is too close to japan..Thande, out of curiosity, what was your reasoning on Korea? I know you hold dictatorial powers over it, but still.

Edit: Oops, forgot to take out Argentina, sorry.

 

[Plumber]

Vietnam and Malaysia are also in the skeleton TCS.

Gold China is actually easier to tell apart from Japan than bright green because of light contrast.

And yeah, I thought the orange Korean color was fine, the Yellow-Green looks too close to Japan for me.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Vietnam and Malaysia are also in the skeleton TCS.

Gold China is actually easier to tell apart from Japan than bright green because of light contrast.

And yeah, I thought the orange Korean color was fine, the Yellow-Green looks too close to Japan for me.

I assume you mean Thailand when you say Malaysia. You are correct sir. No, Green China definitely looks better than Gold next to Japan. Where did you get lime green from? Lime is a lot...softer. It's neon-green, if anything.

Edit: In all honesty, I actually prefer Iori's Indonesia colour. Oh, and I put the Spanish dominion colour on Venezuela.

 

[Thande]

Here it is without all of Plumber's additions. I really think Korea is too close to japan..Thande, out of curiosity, what was your reasoning on Korea? I know you hold dictatorial powers over it, but still.

Edit: Oops, forgot to take out Argentina, sorry.

Thanks for that. There's a reason I took out all those colours - they're all too close to other ones, especially that daft blue Argentine one. Besides the fact that they're unnecessary.

You're quite right about Korea, I had assumed it would look more distinctive. Maybe it can go back to Ethiopia to appease our white guilt complex about not having many African colours. Suggestions for a Korean colour anyone?

@Nek: I appreciate your input, but I would have thought making the Brazil colour less bright would make it more similar to the uninhabited colour.

 

[Thande]

Edit: In all honesty, I actually prefer Iori's Indonesia colour.

Too similar to Israel.

BTW, your last map shows this scheme actually came out looking a lot better than I expected. My only concern is that Savoy doesn't look good next to France.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Thanks for that.

No problemo. I'm just happy to be a part of things.

You're quite right about Korea, I had assumed it would look more distinctive. Maybe it can go back to Ethiopia to appease our white guilt complex about not having many African colours. Suggestions for a Korean colour anyone?

Indeed. Ethiopia it is. As for Korea, as long as it isn't a shade of green or yellow, anything would work. Green would clash with China, yellow with Japan. Perhaps a red or a blue? What happened to the purple you had?

Edit: Perhaps we could implement the ex-Congo colour?

Too similar to Israel.

Ah fair enough then.

My only concern is that Savoy doesn't look good next to France.

Yes, Plumber brought that up too. I like his suggestion of adding some green to Italy, especially if we're changing Savoy.

 

[Thande]

Indeed. Ethiopia it is. As for Korea, as long as it isn't a shade of green or yellow, anything would work. Green would clash with China, yellow with Japan. Perhaps a red or a blue? What happened to the purple you had?

Edit: Perhaps we could implement the ex-Congo colour?

I thought the purple I had was too similar to the Indian colours since I made the Muslim Indian colour lighter. I think I already used the Congo colour for something else. Maybe we could use the colour previously used for Mali? I want to see it used for a country that actually needs it rather than it being vaguely applied to any African country in a way that impedes rather than promotes recognition.

Yes, Plumber brought that up too. I like his suggestion of adding some green to Italy, especially if we're changing Savoy.

Are there any shades of green left? I was thinking of a reddish-brown colour, providing it's not too similar to Sicily. Or maybe that mid-brown colour previously used for Belarus.

 

[Thande]

Here are some proposals for colours for Brazil, Savoy/Piedmont and Korea.

I have removed all the territory colours from the map as I said. The reason should be obvious. Even by doing so I barely freed up enough shades to make this distinct. Note the Oman colour is also ditched as it is nigh identical to Tunisia's and Oman shows up less often as a colonial power than I first expected. (The ATL Map Database thread has been a real help in determining which countries need colours).

We still have the old Mali colour free but I can't think where to apply it.

I believe we are now at the absolute extreme number of shades we can have while still being sufficiently distinct.

 

[Orioes]

Overall I like it though I think the beige colors used in the Americas are too close to Egypt. Also I still advocate for 2-3 generics for TL specific states that don't normally warrant a color.

 

[Thande]

Overall I like it though I think the beige colors used in the Americas are too close to Egypt.

Specify.

Also I still advocate for 2-3 generics for TL specific states that don't normally warrant a color.

That is up to the person making the map. Having set ones is silly because the point of a UCS colour is that it is unambiguously identified with a specific nation.

 

[mowque]

Do we really need that many colors?

 

[Thande]

Do we really need that many colors?

You know that I stand fast against people who try to overload the UCS with too many. I am basing this on my experience from the ATL Map Database on which colours are needed to strike a balance between overly white maps and so many colours they blur together.

 

[Alex Richards]

May I suggest giving the old Mali colour to Pisa. I've found that they owned Sardinia and Corsica in the period from 1100-1200, and that they were also in the running for colonies and trading posts in the east med like Genoa and Venice.

 

[Thande]

May I suggest giving the old Mali colour to Pisa. I've found that they owned Sardinia and Corsica in the period from 1100-1200, and that they were also in the running for colonies and trading posts in the east med like Genoa and Venice.

I think that's pushing it. Besides I tried giving Mali's colour to Sardinia/Piedmont and it's surprisingly hard to distinguish when next to France's.