U.S Presidents in Crown and Tomahawk

MadMc · Jul 9, 2009

I've started looking into who would be president after the war of 1812 where the British do set up and Native Prectorate. I need help with finding suitable canidates.

here's what I think would change:
anti-Indian and British sentiment due to the loss of the territory, though you may see some politicians ok with the prectorate (well they're not our problem anymore)
No battle of New Orleans so Jackson doesn't have all the fame
Zachary Taylor killed during the war
Harrison govenor of Indiana when it is lost, so prolly very unpopular.

any ideas would be very helpful

CaptainAmerica · Jul 9, 2009

Jackson would still be popular because he was an Indian Fighter before and after New Orleans

MadMc · Jul 9, 2009

true

...also I don't kno why it posted three times

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jul 9, 2009

Harrison OTL was in charge of the war in the northwest. Since OTL it went well, he got a jump on the presidency. Similarly, Zachary Taylor got his start there.

If the Northwest is lost to an Indian protectorate, then IMO none of the military figures there are likely to stand a chance. If the battle of New Orleans doesn't happen, then there are likely no LAND battles that will help anyone's careers. Maybe Decatur can leverage his naval exploits? (or one of the other naval heros). Especially, since the naval results may be the ONLY ones that the US can boast of.

OTOH, if the war goes badly (basically defeated everywhere on land, lose territory), then possibly the Federalists survive and you get another New England Federalist? Dan'l Webster, anyone?

MadMc · Jul 10, 2009

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Harrison OTL was in charge of the war in the northwest. Since OTL it went well, he got a jump on the presidency. Similarly, Zachary Taylor got his start there.

If the Northwest is lost to an Indian protectorate, then IMO none of the military figures there are likely to stand a chance. If the battle of New Orleans doesn't happen, then there are likely no LAND battles that will help anyone's careers. Maybe Decatur can leverage his naval exploits? (or one of the other naval heros). Especially, since the naval results may be the ONLY ones that the US can boast of.

OTOH, if the war goes badly (basically defeated everywhere on land, lose territory), then possibly the Federalists survive and you get another New England Federalist? Dan'l Webster, anyone?

i'll look into them, thanks for your help!

Herr Frage · Jul 10, 2009

Could this defeat threaten the Union?

The iron is still relatively hot for American unity, if there is a reasonable prospect for a new war with Britain that would likely agiatate New England. I am saying the DoD scenario would occur, but seccession rumblings might lead to an earlier centeralization.

Also with an Anglo/Native wedge carved into the USA this could greatly affect their westawrd expasion. Specifically the freesoil expansion.

I woul say that some anti war figure from New England will be next in line. But revaunchism is going to come into play sooner rather than later.

MadMc · Jul 10, 2009

Josiah Quincy III was a representitive and senator from Mass. he was part of the large antiwar group in his state

I thought Caleb Strong, who strongly opposed the war, and even fasted and helped write a petition to end the war...but he died in 1820 so maybe run in 1816

stevep · Jul 10, 2009

Herr Frage said:
Could this defeat threaten the Union?

Possibly as could be a lot of recimination. Some groups arguing the war should never be fought and for improved relations with Britain for trade purposes. Others taking the opposite view and that it was winable if not for internal dissent. Likely to cause some disputes and division but fairly unlikely to cause a serious split or a swing to a more autocratic system. Might generate/increase some cracks that could be significant at a later point. All depends on whether back-biting or attempts to settle differences take priority.

Also with an Anglo/Native wedge carved into the USA this could greatly affect their westawrd expasion. Specifically the freesoil expansion.

It is likely to delay fairly drastically the northern part of Louisiana as the US lines of communications are so much longer and more exposed. Might also mean a weaker position for the US if any negotiations on the border with Britain. Alternatively, with the greater tension between the two nations probably not going to have such an agreement in the near future.

However it could also considerably affect internal development in the south. OTL as the great plantations spread a lot of small farmers, unable to compete, moved north to find land. [Including the Lincoln family I believe]. Without the Indiana wedge, or whatever we call it, there's a lot less land available. Hence more competition. Either the plantations still win in which case what happens to the small farmers, or the bulk of the population is able to break the power of the estates. Could be a hell of a lot of tension in the region.

Might also make the US even more expansionist due to great land hunger? Which way might they go in this case? Probably not Canada as Britain is approaching its peak power and is not going to be facing problems in Europe. Likely an earlier clash with Mexico over Texas and neighbouring lands. Possibly an hack at Spain. [It still holds Florida and might be encouraged to hold on by the apparent weakness of the US so you could see a full scale war in the area]. If the US is successful in this it could generate some future presidential candicates. Can't see them getting any of the Spanish islands at this point but possibly Florida and speed up the fall of Spanish rule in Mexico.

Steve

W.W.A.F.T. · Jul 10, 2009

stevep said:
Might also make the US even more expansionist due to great land hunger? Which way might they go in this case? Probably not Canada as Britain is approaching its peak power and is not going to be facing problems in Europe. Likely an earlier clash with Mexico over Texas and neighbouring lands. Possibly an hack at Spain. [It still holds Florida and might be encouraged to hold on by the apparent weakness of the US so you could see a full scale war in the area]. If the US is successful in this it could generate some future presidential candicates. Can't see them getting any of the Spanish islands at this point but possibly Florida and speed up the fall of Spanish rule in Mexico.

Steve

I agree, after a loss like that the US will be barking mad. frankly I feel sorry for mexico once all that pent up agression heads their way, but this does mean that Old Fuss and Feathers Winfield Scott will almost certainly be president. Sam houston might find himself in some kind of high office as well, but probably not the presidency.