Turtledove vs. the British Education System
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Obviously, I now have a deeper knowledge from reading textbooks and so forth, but at the time I didn't have a clue about the conflict outside of the Blitz and a bit of North Africa (the only areas which the British Education System covers, because then we get to do piss-dull social history about evacuated kids with gas masks).
you mean, they don't teach you that the USA won WW2 practically singlehanded, and then built the A bomb to keep all of you free from the vile Russians?
MrP
Banned
...you know, I don't think the USA was ever mentioned in our history syllabus
Maybe once in relation to WW1, but that's about it...
Let me check my GCSE notes. I recall we covered Wilson's Fourteen Points of Doom to death. Well, I wished I was dead.
Thande
Donor
That's another thing I only learned from talking to Americans on here, the fact that Wilson was an appalling racist even by the standards of the time.
Over here the image seems to be 'naive starry-eyed do-gooder betrayed by the curmudgeonly evil Yanks who refused to join their own League of Nations', without any of that particular pallor...
No so much here. Naturally, it's a longer day when marking is taken into consideration, but my dad did about 6-7 hours at school, and usually no more than an hour marking at home etc. Having said that, this was after 30 years of work, and as a Principal Teacher (that means Head of Department here, not Headmaster), so it may have been different to begin with. Can't tell you about that, as I wasn't born yet!
MrP
Banned
Yeah, that's what I picked up, too! A far cry from what even a little digging uncovers.
Right, I've gone through my GCSE notes on WWI. I've mentioned Wilson above. There's a passage on the Lusitania and there's the following paragraph. And that is all I have.
Bizarrely enough, not even Pershing seems to be mentioned!
Thande
Donor
Yeah, when we covered WW1, there was a hell of a lot more about the leadup to the war, the arms race and so forth, and the casus belli for America you mention, rather than the actual frickin' war itself.Bizarrely enough, not even Pershing seems to be mentioned!
But even that was more detailed than what we got for WW2, which was "Poland! Blitz! Holocaust! Cold War! Berlin Wall!"
...you know, I don't think the USA was ever mentioned in our history syllabus
Maybe once in relation to WW1, but that's about it...
It wasn't mentioned in ours, probably because all the teachers are lefties. Although to be fair, I didn't take history after the age of 14, as I knew more about the subjects covered than the teachers did, which is always a bad sign!
Instead, I did Modern Studies (basically Politics) and learned a great deal about the electoral systems of Israel, Germany and the US, among others, and about the United Nations and the development of the Chinese Communist Party....Splendid fun.
That was pretty much the style we did about the war, we many looked at factors and problems caused by it.
I don't remember doing a lot about America, although Wilson's Fourteen Points does ring a bell...and we did quite a boring piece on prohibition of alcohol in America...which gave me a good excuse to go on Al Capon sound boards during lessons.
I don't remember doing a lot about America, although Wilson's Fourteen Points does ring a bell...and we did quite a boring piece on prohibition of alcohol in America...which gave me a good excuse to go on Al Capon sound boards during lessons
.That's part of the problem. The US system is theoretically designed as Uni prep. But it's uni prep for the 25% percentile of actual students. And this is designed by those who are about that level (It's designed to push everyone towards college, but not include anything that a slow, almost interested student will pick up).
Which means that it contains a lack of core skills for anyone slower than median (and possibly some above), and a lack of both concept, and detail (unimportant according to current doctrine).
I guess you can say, I'm not a fan.
- Basic skills.
- Knowledge base.
- Practical skills.
- Citizenship.
- Practicum.
Yeah, when we covered WW1, there was a hell of a lot more about the leadup to the war, the arms race and so forth, and the casus belli for America you mention, rather than the actual frickin' war itself.
But even that was more detailed than what we got for WW2, which was "Poland! Blitz! Holocaust! Cold War! Berlin Wall!"
The Canadian version (or at least the version we got in my school) went:
WW1: Alliance systems. Archduke Franz. 2nd Ypres. Home front. VIMY RIDGE! (Shaft of light, chorus of angels). Hundred days. Versailles.
WW2: Hitler's rise to power. Anschluss and Munich. Poland and France. Hong Kong. Home front. Dieppe! D-Day! More home front!
You know, I don't think I got that good an education, history-wise, but relative to what I'm hearing here it was fantastic.
We covered history in vaguely correct order, though American-Modern and World history were taught seperately. They ran Columbus-to-Soviet Collapse and Ancient Egypt-to-Columbus respectively. Only the former had a true world perspective, prior to that there'd be a chapter running a thousand years in one region.
One thing I will say is that we ran through history pretty thoroughly. When we covered a WWI or Post-Reconstruction America we covered it. The emphasis on what happened may have been off, and details of normal life were only added in offhand by the teachers, but there wasn't much in the way of huge gaping holes. That's true on a larger scale too. The world wasn't mentioned a lot until America was out in it, but my school wasn't one of the ones that forgot Russia was in WW2.
We covered history in vaguely correct order, though American-Modern and World history were taught seperately. They ran Columbus-to-Soviet Collapse and Ancient Egypt-to-Columbus respectively. Only the former had a true world perspective, prior to that there'd be a chapter running a thousand years in one region.
One thing I will say is that we ran through history pretty thoroughly. When we covered a WWI or Post-Reconstruction America we covered it. The emphasis on what happened may have been off, and details of normal life were only added in offhand by the teachers, but there wasn't much in the way of huge gaping holes. That's true on a larger scale too. The world wasn't mentioned a lot until America was out in it, but my school wasn't one of the ones that forgot Russia was in WW2.
You learned about Dieppe? The only reason I've even heard of it is because there was a passing mention in a book about D-Day I was reading out of my own interest! And I'm one of the best students in the best secondary in Doncaster!
(Not that that’s saying much for a school in a ridiculously anti-education town like Doncaster, but I’m exceptional nearly everywhere. Except maybe Finland.)
I think Thande meant English system, we do Standard Grades up here.
The only reason we know about the British empire is of passing reference during the WW's, and there is no mention of any foreign civil wars, or even USA's rebellion, or anyone's, apart from Ghandi, but I think that was in Religious Education, not History.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/learning/bitesize/standard/history/
Of the 7 there, I think we've done 3.
In Primary all I remember is Ancient Egyptians.
Here's what they apparently do now in 1st and 2nd year.
All we did was the Slave Trade (this is just what I can remember).
I have notes for all of them, but not on my computer, otherwise I could show you what we learn.
The only reason we know about the British empire is of passing reference during the WW's, and there is no mention of any foreign civil wars, or even USA's rebellion, or anyone's, apart from Ghandi, but I think that was in Religious Education, not History.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/learning/bitesize/standard/history/
Of the 7 there, I think we've done 3.
In Primary all I remember is Ancient Egyptians.
Here's what they apparently do now in 1st and 2nd year.
All we did was the Slave Trade (this is just what I can remember).
I have notes for all of them, but not on my computer, otherwise I could show you what we learn.
Thande
Donor
Zyzzyva is Canadian, so his point was that they only learn about their own role in WW2 (the Dieppe raid was done by Canadian troops, as was Vimy Ridge in WW1).
I'll have to know what that is in your opinion in case I need to disagree with you
Well, I hail from Texas, but thank G-d, I've already graduated. However, I feel sorry for students who may be taught under the Board of Education's proposed textbook and TEKS adjustments.
For example, Jefferson's status as a Founding Father and figure in the Enlightenment will be reduced to a passing mention, with probably even less on Madison, in favor of increased focus on Reagan and, to a lesser extent, Nixon.
In addition to that, the new TEKS state that children will have to understand the history of the Conservative movement, Capitalism ("Free Enterprise"), "Judeo-Christian" influences, and the National Rifle Association. Meanwhile, references to the United Nations is being cut out, focus on the Civil War reduced, and history of Slavery and the Abolition thereof all but eliminated.
Of course, teachers have basically been on that path for a while already, it's just being encouraged more now. And don't even get me started on biology, which was basically a Christianity class at my school.
EDIT- Oh damn, looks like I've commented on this thread before, just a few posts up. Yeah, history is pretty limited after the Civil War to WW2, oh and that Civil Rights crap. <_<
For example, Jefferson's status as a Founding Father and figure in the Enlightenment will be reduced to a passing mention, with probably even less on Madison, in favor of increased focus on Reagan and, to a lesser extent, Nixon.
In addition to that, the new TEKS state that children will have to understand the history of the Conservative movement, Capitalism ("Free Enterprise"), "Judeo-Christian" influences, and the National Rifle Association. Meanwhile, references to the United Nations is being cut out, focus on the Civil War reduced, and history of Slavery and the Abolition thereof all but eliminated.
Of course, teachers have basically been on that path for a while already, it's just being encouraged more now. And don't even get me started on biology, which was basically a Christianity class at my school.
EDIT- Oh damn, looks like I've commented on this thread before, just a few posts up. Yeah, history is pretty limited after the Civil War to WW2, oh and that Civil Rights crap. <_<
Zyzzyva is Canadian, so his point was that they only learn about their own role in WW2 (the Dieppe raid was done by Canadian troops, as was Vimy Ridge in WW1).
I'll have to know what that is in your opinion in case I need to disagree with you
I mean Ridgewood, which is top of the league tables.
But I won’t be there much longer!What I can remember of my history lessons is as follows:
Year 3:
Ancient Egyptians. We learnt about their pyramids and burial rites, social structure, and a bit about Tutankhamun. Got to do some of our own research, and a play about the life of a Pharaoh. Watched videos about hieroglyphs and farming and day-to-day life.
Romans. Learnt about how their armies fought their cuisine, had a Roman feast and made our own mock togas and armour. Learned about Celtic and Roman ways of life, and a bit about who, where and when they’d conquered.
History of Tufnell Park, (local area).
Year 4:
Systems of government in Athens and Sparta, their government, gods, ways of life, and where Alexander conquered.
Victorian way of life.
Year 5: Moved from London to Doncaster. Learned the history of railways, and did the Greeks again.
Year 6: Can’t remember.
Year 7: Roman conquests and organization of the army. Celtic way of life. Manorial system, 1348 plague, Monks.
Year 8: Tudors, Stuarts, agricultural Revolution, Industrial Revolution.
Year 9: Holocaust, Elections (doing a mock school election, where my class’s party came second to last). Women’s Suffrage. World War I, which we’ve just wrapped up. Going onto World War II and MLK Jr. Next year we’re going to do the modern world, which apparently will include a lot about Communism and the EU. But I’m moving schools, so it might be slightly different in Wales, which will include quite a bit of Welsh history as well.
Since between us we probably know more than the teachers, why don’t we come up with our own history program for England?
Actually, on Tuesday we learnt that on September 15th, the last day of the Battle of Britain and the planned date of Sea Lion, the RAF had all its planes in the air, with none to spare. But they came out on top that day, and Hitler cancelled. So it isn’t that difficult to butterfly a Sea Lion launch. We also learnt that though Britain was producing more planes, Germany was producing more pilots.