Troodon survives the K-T event: what would the world look like today?

[Archon of Thessaly]

As many of you know, i'm currently writing my relitivly populer TL: A brave new world: dinosaurs not quite wiped out.... which has a POD of this very idea.

Anyway, while i have my own ideas about how evolution would play out, what do YOU think would happen? Would Troodon go hominid and humanoid ( pretty unlikely.) Would mammals still dominate as OTL? Would troodon decendents develop into highly intellegent creatures capable of basic culture and even tool use?

And what, if you were took look through a time portal to this reality at an alternate version of your street, would the world look like?
I look forward to your suggestions!

My current TL: A brave new world: dinosaurs not quite wiped out....

 

[Flubber]

As with the recent "Different Cambrian Explosion" thread, there is too much time involved to seriously answer your question.

We can quite literally make almost anything up and all of it would be of equal plausibility.

 

[TRH]

Even if it isn't silly for an Alternate "History" forum to discuss prehistoric events, it certainly does cross the line when we consider scenarios that predate the development of hominids. Anything that butteflies homo sapiens is pretty much above our pay grade here.

 

[Color-Copycat]

I don't think we can even begin to comprehend the effect of butterflies in such a scenario. While it's not quite as bad as in those geologic PODs, it certainly does throw something of a spanner in the works.

 

[Falecius]

As many of you know, i'm currently writing my relitivly populer TL: A brave new world: dinosaurs not quite wiped out.... which has a POD of this very idea.

Anyway, while i have my own ideas about how evolution would play out, what do YOU think would happen? Would Troodon go hominid and humanoid ( pretty unlikely.) Would mammals still dominate as OTL? Would troodon decendents develop into highly intellegent creatures capable of basic culture and even tool use?

And what, if you were took look through a time portal to this reality at an alternate version of your street, would the world look like?
I look forward to your suggestions!

My current TL: A brave new world: dinosaurs not quite wiped out....

If ONLY Troodons survive, there's plenty of places where evolution goes fairly close to OTL for several million years, so yeah, mammals would be the dominant vertebrate group in many areas. At some points the Troodons will have the opportunity to spread into Asia.
However, in a sense it is not a very large difference from OTL. Troodons belong to a group of dinosaurs that is fairly close to birds (I'm almost sure they were feathered), to the point that a Linnaeus transferred into such a world would likely lump the two together.
I'd expect Troodons to radiate into a number of forms, but basically I suspect that many of these would fill niched comparable to ratites or terror birds. I write this before having caught up with your TL (I started the reading and then abandoned it, but the topic is interesting).

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

As with the recent "Different Cambrian Explosion" thread, there is too much time involved to seriously answer your question.

We can quite literally make almost anything up and all of it would be of equal plausibility.

No not really. By your logic, humans would still develop and troodon would develop flying saucers.......well you get the general idea.
Things will still happen. Troodon will adapt to whatever nature throws at it ( which will be similer weather patterns OTL.)

If anything, this peroid is easier since most lines of animals had already developed.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

If ONLY Troodons survive, there's plenty of places where evolution goes fairly close to OTL for several million years, so yeah, mammals would be the dominant vertebrate group in many areas. At some points the Troodons will have the opportunity to spread into Asia.
However, in a sense it is not a very large difference from OTL. Troodons belong to a group of dinosaurs that is fairly close to birds (I'm almost sure they were feathered), to the point that a Linnaeus transferred into such a world would likely lump the two together.
I'd expect Troodons to radiate into a number of forms, but basically I suspect that many of these would fill niched comparable to ratites or terror birds. I write this before having caught up with your TL (I started the reading and then abandoned it, but the topic is interesting).

Your pretty much on the ball. Terror birds will have their niche occupied by Troodon decendents. As the continents break up, we could see several lines splintering off, such as more bird like anceastors, pack hunters, herbivores e.c.t

 

[Color-Copycat]

I don't think that's how the butterfly effect works, especially when it comes to relatively fickle weather patterns.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

I don't think that's how the butterfly effect works, especially when it comes to relatively fickle weather patterns.

Buttefly effect in this context should effect weather. If it did, we would be dealing with that pet hate of mine, the chaos theory. Don't forget, these creatures are ( currently) unable to effect their own enviroment. With evolution, patterns keep reoccuring. If we work on thoes, add in weather as OTL ( with maybe some differences) and also include troodon and other creatures behaviour and evolutionary traits, then we can get some picture to how things will play out. Only look at how birds or mammals evolved post K-T.

 

[Color-Copycat]

They affect their environment through energy transfers, gas exchange, nutrient uptake, and many such interactions. The ecological repercussions of such a surviving population's dietary impact alone would be worth further discussion.

 

[Flubber]

No not really.

Yes, really.

By your logic, humans would still develop and troodon would develop flying saucers.......well you get the general idea.

But you don't. I can write that humans develop, humans don't survive, multiple hominids survive, sapient marsupials only survive, sapient birds develop, possums build flying saucers, and thousands of other scenarios and they all will be equally plausible.

Things will still happen.

That's the problem, things will still happen and there is 43 million years of time for them to happen in.

Troodon will adapt to whatever nature throws at it...

It's equally plausible that troodon will go extinct. The "lifespan" of land species seems to be about 7 million years.

( which will be similer weather patterns OTL.)

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, do you?

The weather is going to be the same in the No K-T event timeline as it is in the our K-T event timeline? You don't think a huge fucking crater left by the impact plus the volcanic activity it kicked off might have had some effect on the planet's heat balance?

The weather is going to change faster than anything else.

If anything, this peroid is easier since most lines of animals had already developed.

And there's nothing to suggest they won't go extinct at some later point.

The canvas is too vast and there's too much time for the butterflies to accrue. We can suggest nearly anything and it all will be equally plausible.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

ok now i'm trying not to rant.......ok.......

It's equally plausible that troodon will go extinct. The "lifespan" of land species seems to be about 7 million years.

You idiot. I meant troodon decendents. i NEVER said troodon itself!

ut you don't. I can write that humans develop, humans don't survive, multiple hominids survive, sapient marsupials only survive, sapient birds develop, possums build flying saucers, and thousands of other scenarios and they all will be equally plausible.

Oh come on thats just delusional. The development of hominids in the same TL as a surviving line of dinosaurs? Lemer saucers? what the hell is this? Look, i think loads of people will agree that the chance of hominids not developing will be a lot higher then any other scenario involving hominids....or lemers.

The weather is going to be the same in the No K-T event timeline as it is in the our K-T event timeline? You don't think a huge fucking crater left by the impact plus the volcanic activity it kicked off might have had some effect on the planet's heat balance?

The weather is going to change faster than anything else.

The preimise of the POD is that the astoid strike did happen unless you've missed that. I meant the weather, post K-T, already pumped with ash, already coling due to Azoola redirecting the ocean current. Already seeing water trapped causing the ice age and global droughts. Already seeing india collide with asia, and the rift vally developing. I never said that wouldnt happen. Has their been some sort of of miscomunication here?

And there's nothing to suggest they won't go extinct at some later point.

The canvas is too vast and there's too much time for the butterflies to accrue. We can suggest nearly anything and it all will be equally plausible.

They just survied a bloody astroid. Whatever comes next, given their extradordanary traits and past record at adapting, they may persavere. And yes, many lines of troodon decendents will die out-but some may survive.
Yes the canvus is huge-but at least im trying and, according to many readers of my TL, doing a quite good job so far at least. Now unless you want to write up your own tl, i fail to see how your fit to say i have no idea what i'm doing.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about, do you?

Oh yes i do. I've been doing this for several months. I read things called books. I watch intellegent documentariers. I do my own research. I've listaned to acclaimed paeozooligists and paleontoligists views. I've watched and obseved nature in action. Yes, i'm not sure on many fronts, but this is alternate history! Its all speculation! we will NEVER know what really happens. We can only research, nuckle down, and write as plausably as possible.

 

[Beedok]

65 million years to do whatever the heck you want! 1 000 years of POD is insane butterflies. This says "full creative license allowed", as long as nothing is impossible.

 

[Flubber]

Has their been some sort of of miscomunication here?

Yes, there has been. While I knew you'd referenced your other thread in you original post, I didn't appreciate that fact that this thread was solely meant to solicit ideas for that thread.

Oh yes i do. I've been doing this for several months. I read things called books. I watch intellegent documentariers. I do my own research. I've listaned to acclaimed paeozooligists and paleontoligists views. I've watched and obseved nature in action. Yes, i'm not sure on many fronts, but this is alternate history! Its all speculation! we will NEVER know what really happens. We can only research, nuckle down, and write as plausably as possible.

I'd a better chance of believing all that if you were able to actually spell all the big words you're using. Your inability to spell, despite spell checking being automatic, combined with your inability to properly capitalize, compose sentences, maintain verb tenses, and all the rest make it hard for anyone to take you seriously.

And claiming that your efforts are plausible is especially rich.

 

[Color-Copycat]

Hey, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize people on spelling. Not everyone has spellcheck on their web browser, and there are a few members of the board with reading disorders who have difficulty with orthography and the like yet manage to contribute greatly to discussion. Hell, he might even have English as his second language for all we know, and that's certainly no reason to go abusing him for his spelling.

 

[Beedok]

Hey, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize people on spelling. Not everyone has spellcheck on their web browser, and there are a few members of the board with reading disorders who have difficulty with orthography and the like yet manage to contribute greatly to discussion. Hell, he might even have English as his second language for all we know, and that's certainly no reason to go abusing him for his spelling.

They're both being rather uncivil. Also I think an issue is that the word 'weather' was used in the place of the word 'climate' at one point and that somehow spiralled things into chaos.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

Yes, there has been. While I knew you'd referenced your other thread in you original post, I didn't appreciate that fact that this thread was solely meant to solicit ideas for that thread.



I'd a better chance of believing all that if you were able to actually spell all the big words you're using. Your inability to spell, despite spell checking being automatic, combined with your inability to properly capitalize, compose sentences, maintain verb tenses, and all the rest make it hard for anyone to take you seriously.

And claiming that your efforts are plausible is especially rich.

I'm slightly dyslexic by the way.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

They're both being rather uncivil. Also I think an issue is that the word 'weather' was used in the place of the word 'climate' at one point and that somehow spiralled things into chaos.

And i'm sorry about being uncivil, i was slightly streesed already before reading the offending thread. Sorry!

And anyway, i wasn't really about the weather and climate being used in a paragraph-it was really about his attatude, his booring behavior and the way he hinted that my TL and question was complietly ludicrous! He said theirs an equal chance of homonids in my timeline!

The fact is, surely this copuld be said of ALL timelines really. Its speculative history.We can only guess at what would happen. Saying " oh thats too many butterflies" is abit pointless when we consider that we dont actually know what could happen. I could say the same thing about somthing that happened last week. We just donr know. We can only make an educated guess.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

Yes, there has been. While I knew you'd referenced your other thread in you original post, I didn't appreciate that fact that this thread was solely meant to solicit ideas for that thread.



I'd a better chance of believing all that if you were able to actually spell all the big words you're using. Your inability to spell, despite spell checking being automatic, combined with your inability to properly capitalize, compose sentences, maintain verb tenses, and all the rest make it hard for anyone to take you seriously.

And claiming that your efforts are plausible is especially rich.

I never said it was highly plausable. Or did you miss the bit where i mentioned that its all specualtive history? Hell. i could be utterly wrong-but you know what? i tried.

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

Hey, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize people on spelling. Not everyone has spellcheck on their web browser, and there are a few members of the board with reading disorders who have difficulty with orthography and the like yet manage to contribute greatly to discussion. Hell, he might even have English as his second language for all we know, and that's certainly no reason to go abusing him for his spelling.

I am english ( well welsh, but you get the general idea.) , just partly dyslexic and lack a spellchecker.