Torpedoes Used At D-Day

[Wyboy26]

I was thinking last night, what would of happened if the German's has used submerged torpedo launches along the beaches of northern France, I know they couldn't be aimed and would be fired in a straight line, but with the battle for the Atlantic almost over, there would be a surplus of torpedoes and if lots of them were in place and fired remotely, would this hamper the Allies supply ships and supporting heavier ships (they would prob swim under the landing crafts

Simon

 

[wkwillis]

Coastal launched torpedos were used in Europe in WWII. The Germans lost a ship to one in Norway. Normandy was mostly sandy beaches and they had lots of moored mines that had to be swept, but I don't think it was susceptible to torpedo use.
Now the Germans did use big torpedos with sailors with insulated bouyant suits on them. They called them "neggerdecks" for the obvious reason and they were supposed to fire them, roll off in the sea, and wait for rescue. Don't know if any were at Normandy.

 

[David S Poepoe]

I was thinking last night, what would of happened if the German's has used submerged torpedo launches along the beaches of northern France, I know they couldn't be aimed and would be fired in a straight line, but with the battle for the Atlantic almost over, there would be a surplus of torpedoes and if lots of them were in place and fired remotely, would this hamper the Allies supply ships and supporting heavier ships (they would prob swim under the landing crafts

Simon

Allied intelligence would have known about them to begin with. Such 'torpedo batteries' would be fairly expensive and complicated to incorporate into the Atlantic Wall. They may have been done in more logically places, like the Pais de Calais, that were close to existing harbors.

 

[wkwillis]

Allied intelligence would have known about them to begin with. Such 'torpedo batteries' would be fairly expensive and complicated to incorporate into the Atlantic Wall. They may have been done in more logically places, like the Pais de Calais, that were close to existing harbors.

Floating mines that aren't moored can also be used. You have to make them slightly negatively bouyant so they bounce along the bottom and then explode when they are near something magnetic like a ship. Release them when the invasion fleet is coming and wait for longshore drift to move them into the target zone.
We used sonar tracking torpedos to sink subs in WWII. The German variant could just wait on the bottom till something comes by that is making noise and then attack.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Floating mines that aren't moored can also be used. You have to make them slightly negatively bouyant so they bounce along the bottom and then explode when they are near something magnetic like a ship. Release them when the invasion fleet is coming and wait for longshore drift to move them into the target zone.
We used sonar tracking torpedos to sink subs in WWII. The German variant could just wait on the bottom till something comes by that is making noise and then attack.

So Allied Intelligence finds out about that also. Weren't Allied frogmen sent in first to scout out the area? I doubt such complicated weapons could have been used along the entire length of the Atlantic Wall. Wouldn't local fishermen have to worry about such devices?

 

[wkwillis]

So Allied Intelligence finds out about that also. Weren't Allied frogmen sent in first to scout out the area? I doubt such complicated weapons could have been used along the entire length of the Atlantic Wall. Wouldn't local fishermen have to worry about such devices?

Sure. The allied frogmen would know about them, but they couldn't do anything about them except recommend we tow big nets to catch them before longshore drift brought them off the Normandy beaches.
Local fishermen would not operate in minefields, and that's how allied intelligence would know where they were, because the French fishermen would tell them.

 

[Wyboy26]

well is there an effective way to defeat suporting ships, without have to rely on heavy coastal guns,

 

[wkwillis]

well is there an effective way to defeat suporting ships, without have to rely on heavy coastal guns,

Dive bombers with fighter protection. A navy of your own. Nukes. Television guided missiles.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Dive bombers with fighter protection. A navy of your own. Nukes. Television guided missiles.

Well, wkwillis we know at least the Germans had no access to the last two on D-Day. At least to immediately field - and the Allies had air and naval superiority in the Channel that day.

 

[Archdevil]

They had some kind of guided missile though.

 

[David S Poepoe]

They had some kind of guided missile though.

Yes they did. No one is questioning that. Would they have been used at Normandy?

 

[Cockroach]

I was thinking last night, what would of happened if the German's has used submerged torpedo launches along the beaches of northern France, I know they couldn't be aimed and would be fired in a straight line, but with the battle for the Atlantic almost over, there would be a surplus of torpedoes and if lots of them were in place and fired remotely, would this hamper the Allies supply ships and supporting heavier ships (they would prob swim under the landing crafts

1. The allied heavy vessels (BBs, CAs, CLs) are not going to be with in range of the torpedos if they can help it.
2. Allied supply ships are not going to arrive until the beaches are secure.
3. As your limited wits apparently realise the LCIs, LCMs, LSTs, etc. have shallow draft and so most torpedos will pass under rather than hit.
4. Your proposed setup implies no realoads so you have one or two spreads of torpedos to stop the invasion.

 

[Karlos]

The germans had guided bombs, like the Fritz-X. They were good antiship weapons, as showed in 1943 when they sank the battleship Rome and an american cruiser. The problem is that, for them to be effective, you must have some kind of air power. Of course, if the Luftwaffe would have been strong enough, the allies would have never even attempted a landing until the problem was dealt with. A strong air reserve, ready inside France and used at the right time would have been the best chance for the germans, but I gess it requires a good POD.

 

[mattep74]

the germans had torpedoboats. But the only thing they sunk was a norwegian destroyer

 

[Redbeard]

well is there an effective way to defeat suporting ships, without have to rely on heavy coastal guns,

Mines generally require little to deploy but are a hell to sweep. Acoustic and magnetic mines did cause a lot of trouble and I believe the Germans would have been capable of developing mines lying on the seabed and activated by a cable signal and then homing by sound/magnetism. You could call that a torpedo. Such mines could be deployed on considerable depth and be very difficult to find by frogmen (few meters of visibility). The main problem is that if just one is found and brought home intact in good time by the enemy, they can develop effective countermeassures towards the homing systems.

Shore based anti ship missiles would be interesting too, but by mid 1944 the allies generally were adept in ECM'ing the radio guidance of existing German ASM's. I wonder if a cable guided missile would be an option? In an aircraft it would be awkward to carry 5-10 km of cable, but it would be possible in a pillbox. General shortage of copper in Germany would probably be a main obstacle.

A big number of U-boats not afraid of taking losses would be handy, but would also require intelligence in good time about where the landing will take place, and in OTL the Germans only realised this was it when it really was over.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

 

[Aldroud]

Always wondered why they ddnt fire V2 Rockets at the beaches. Load up a few with chemical weapons and the landings would have been in serious trouble. Still would have gotten ashore I think, but in sever disarray and suseptible to Rommel's counter-attack.

 

[Torqumada]

V-2's were basically fire and forget weapons. You had no guarantee they would hit a specific target. They would be just as likely to hit their own troops involved in close combat with the Allies as they would the Allied soldiers. Attacking an entire country with the idea of spreading terror was a good use for them.

Torqumada

 

[David S Poepoe]

Always wondered why they ddnt fire V2 Rockets at the beaches. Load up a few with chemical weapons and the landings would have been in serious trouble. Still would have gotten ashore I think, but in sever disarray and suseptible to Rommel's counter-attack.

Yes, you are absolutely, but its the Germans that would have been 'in serious trouble' if they started using chemical weapons. That would have opened their armies and cities to Allied retribution via chemical warfare.

But as pointed out before, the Germans didn't have any idea of the size or scope of the landings to begin with.