TLIAW: A continued Macedonian dynasty, or: Basil II's guide to raising a family

Okay, seeing as tomorrow's Sunday, and I go back to college the day after, I have two choices - finish this TL tomorrow, but skipping over a few more updates worth of intrigue and conflicts, or update at my own pace until I get to where I want to end it, but then it wouldn't really be a TLIAW.

Any thoughts? Interest does seem to have died down a bit.
 
Having gotten bogged down in college work, I regret to say that there won't be an update tonight. Thus, I have failed my first TLIAW. I will update when I can up until John II's death. But for now, feel free to read the last couple of updates.
 
I think it's a tradition for TIAW/D to fail their deadlines. :D

Enjoying the work so far, not a common POD that I've seen for the Byzantines.

What are the chances of getting a map at some point to show the new situation?
 
I think it's a tradition for TIAW/D to fail their deadlines. :D

Enjoying the work so far, not a common POD that I've seen for the Byzantines.

What are the chances of getting a map at some point to show the new situation?

Here's a rough job of it:

Legend

Red: Basileia ton Rhomaion
Yellow: Roman protectorates - Republic of Venice, Kingdom of Croatia, Emirate of Aleppo
Pink: Kingdom of Georgia
Green: Emirate of Sicily

map17 John II.png
 
1038-1039 AD:

Naissus:

Even though John's army had been caught off-guard, they were better-equipped, more numerous and more disciplined than the Doukai mercenaries. Despite losing nearly 2,000 men, the rest of them made it inside Naissus in good order. They had also managed to capture two mercenary captains. One of them - a Pecheneg - who broke easily under torture and gave the names of all his employers - Andronikos Doukas, his sons Constantine and John, and Maria Skleros. The other one - a Bulgarian - resisted for longer but finally spilled the reason for the attack - to kill the Emperor and place Constantine Doukas on the throne. "Constantine Doukas? That club-footed, philosophising, indulgent wastrel? Why would anyone want him as emperor?" John thought. He wasn't happy with the land laws (who was?), but he seemed nice, if a bit blustering and long-winded. Before moving to attack, John smuggled messages into Constantinople for reinforcements and a letter into Dorostolon for Constantine Doukas' eyes only.

"My loyal subject, Constantine Doukas, from John, second of that name, of the House of Makedon, autokrator of the Romans, etc.

Your family has a long and noble history. I will not deny both our houses have had the rough spots, but yours is now on a very shaky foundation. Let's take, for example, your foot. Have you ever seen what happens to a clubfoot when you step on it real hard? The foundation is weakened, and all it takes is a push in the right direction to topple it forever. In short, I will not surrender my throne. If you give up this folly your father has dragged you into I will leave you in peace to continue the Doukas bloodline. If not, I'll leave your body and name in ruins, just like your father.

Choose soon and choose wisely."

He did. When John trapped Andronikos and John Doukas and Maria Skleros in Tyrnovo, Constantine dithered and cowered, giving John enough time to starve them out. Immediately afterwards, John receives a letter from Nikephoros Botaneiates, telling him of John the Orphanotrophos' treachery and that Philippa has succumbed to her wounds and died. John is angered, not at Philippa's death (she knew the risks) but at being vulnerable to two plots to dethrone him. John holds from killing or mutilating the Doukai, and instead takes them back to Constantinople for interrogation and trial.

Constantinople


John raises new levies, sends the old, tired troops home, and informs George Maniakes that, while he is sending reinforcements to Sicily, circumstances have forced him to not join the strategos personally. John also congratulates the strategos on his recapture of Syracuse. At the trial, the people are on John's side from the start. The Macedonian dynasty has ruled for so long, it is unthinkable for anyone else to be associated with the purple was unthinkable. Combined with the popularity of the empress, the dubious history of John the Orphanotophos' family and the 'testimony' of other noble families like the Makrembolitoi and Diogenoi, the Doukai and Paphlagonians had no chance. Andronikos Doukas and Maria Skleros were blinded, John Doukas was forced to retire from military matters and Michael the Paphlagonian and Sophia Phokas were exiled to Cherson, where Michael later succumbed to his epilepsy in 1041 AD.

During the trial, strategos Demetrios Makrembolites offered the hand of his sister Eudokia* in marriage to the emperor. John, captivated by her beauty and wit, accepted.
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*: Wife of Constantine X and Romanos IV, mother of Michael VII.
 
Awesome updates!, What happens to Constantine? Even if he did scamper would he be left off without any consequence? Especially as all his family and allies are neutralised.
 
I have to say that you rather lost me with John vanishing to become a dashing hero in Italy. It's something that sounds good in romantic stories, but I have a very hard time seeing anything like it happening in reality, even if Basil II did have a difficult relationship with his son- which is quite plausible. I have my doubts that the mindset of an educated Byzantine would really allow for John to do as he does here.

Also, I think your lapses into "storytelling" rather than "history writing" are ill-advised. Admittedly, it's a tricky line to follow, but I've seen a lot better novelistic style writing on here. Perhaps it's something that's best done in a proper "novel" format rather than throwing together in a TLIAW? For a good example, see Pururauka's The Mauricians.

Sorry if this is overly harsh, and it's not intended as a personal critique in any way: generally, the main theme is decent enough, and there are lots of good elements. But I think overall this needs a lot more work. Hopefully you'll take this criticism in the constructive spirit in which it was intended. :)
 
Awesome updates!, What happens to Constantine? Even if he did scamper would he be left off without any consequence? Especially as all his family and allies are neutralised.

Constantine is pretty much the only Doukas left in power, and considering his OTL reign, that's not saying much. While he did make some ill-advised decisions, I believe the real power was his brother, the Caesar John Doukas.

Just caught up, great timeline!

Glad you're enjoying it so far. I'll try and finish it as soon as possible.

I have to say that you rather lost me with John vanishing to become a dashing hero in Italy. It's something that sounds good in romantic stories, but I have a very hard time seeing anything like it happening in reality, even if Basil II did have a difficult relationship with his son- which is quite plausible. I have my doubts that the mindset of an educated Byzantine would really allow for John to do as he does here.

Mercenary work is hardly dashing or heroic, at least by noble standards. But I do see your point. I'll address that near the end of the TL, which might be the end of this week.

Also, I think your lapses into "storytelling" rather than "history writing" are ill-advised. Admittedly, it's a tricky line to follow, but I've seen a lot better novelistic style writing on here. Perhaps it's something that's best done in a proper "novel" format rather than throwing together in a TLIAW? For a good example, see Pururauka's The Mauricians.

I promise this will be the last "storytelling" section. I just can't seem to get out of the mindset that people would find a pure "history writing" format boring after a while. But it is what I'm best at. I'm keen to get the Seljuks out of the way anyway, so expect the next update, maybe on Wednesday.

Sorry if this is overly harsh, and it's not intended as a personal critique in any way: generally, the main theme is decent enough, and there are lots of good elements. But I think overall this needs a lot more work. Hopefully you'll take this criticism in the constructive spirit in which it was intended. :)

On the contrary, all I have to say is: Finally, three TLs and some real constructive criticism! Don't get me wrong, praise is good, but there needs to be some balance.
 
The Norman Crisis

1039-1048 AD:

It didn't take long for John to consumate his new marriage, and by the end of 1039, Eudokia Makrembolites had given birth to a daughter, named Agatha. In one the last known letters written between John and his cousin Zoe, he learned that her husband, the German Emperor Otto III has passed away from gout. She would remain in the west at the request of Manfred, her eldest surviving son and Otto's successor.

Thanks to the support of Constantinople, George Maniakes had completely recaptured Sicily and Malta by February, 1041. But he would not be able to rest for long. During the campaign, he had humiliated Arduin, the leader of the Lombard troops provided by Duke Guaimar IV of Salerno, who had subsequently abandoned the campaign. Now Guaimar and Arduin had openly declared war on the Catepanate of Italy, and were aided by the Normans - a group of wandering mercenaries led by a man named William de Hauteville, who had supposedly earned the nickname "Iron Arm" when he slew the emir of Syracuse singlehandedly. Maniakes and Catepan Michael Doukeianos first fought them on March 17th near the Olivento river in Apulia. To John's surprise, he found out they had lost. John decided to see to this matter personally. At Bari, Maniakes and Doukeianos each blame the other for the defeat, but John shuts them up and gets them, along with some surviving soldiers, to explain what tactics they had seen among the Normans. Chief among them were armoured cavalry, who held their lances tucked firmly under one arm, as opposed to the Roman cavalry who held their lances with both arms. John orders them to hunker down in their cities and fortresses while they train their own cavalry in this technique. When Doukeianos questions adopting the tactics of the barbarians, John bluntly tells him that they will do whatever it takes to defeat this rebellion once and for all, and that's that.

Two months later, at the next battle at the river Ofanto near Cannae, the Romans scored a close but crushing victory over the combined rebel army, using the new 'couched lance' tehcnique to great effect while exhausting the Norman cavalry with hippo-toxotai and psiloi. William Iron Arm and his younger brother Drogo died fighting, as did Rainulf Drengot, the self-proclaimed count of Aversa. Soon the coalition began to fall apart. Prince Atenulf of Benevento surrendered and publically swore fealty to the emperor for a handsom fee, and Duke John V of Naples broke away from Guaimar. In desperation, Guaimar called for aid from the Pope and Emperor Manfred, but received no reply before Salerno itself came under siege. While Maniakes besieged Humphrey de Hauteville in Melfi, John personally led the siege of Salerno in 1043, promising the citizens mercy if they opened their gates to him. Guaimar adamantly refuses, and tries to sneak out to Rome, but is assassinated at the harbour. Salerno opens its gates, and by the end of the year, John has brought Naples, Capua and all of Lukania back under Roman rule.

Five years of relative peace pass, with John and Eudokia siring three more sons - Alexander, Leo and Stephen. John first son, Basil, is eager to follow in his father's footsteps, but John refuses to take him into open battle, especially while he is busy maintaining the large empire. Suddenly, the peace is shattered when news arrives that the commercial centre of Artze in the Iberian theme has been completely destroyed and that Armenia is being burned and pillaged by the forces of a Turk named Tughril, who calls himself Sultan of the "Great Seljuk State". A combined thematic-Georgian army had been obliterated in a night battle. John calls for the army to begin training, vowing to deal with these Seljuks the way his father had dealt with the Bulgarians.
 
Updated map!

And I've also changed a previous update so that Constantine, son of Romanos III, is not castrated or sent to a monastary.

Legend:

Red: Basileia ton Rhomaion
Yellow: Roman protectorates - Republic of Venice, Kingdom of Croatia, Emirate of Aleppo
Pink: Kingdom of Georgia
Green: Fatimid Caliphate
Blue: Great Seljuk Empire, incl. Abbasid Caliphate

map17 John II.png
 
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hmm do you think Basil can eventually reverse the edicts of Nkephoros Phokas. Cause that Emperor started the process that led to the dissolution of the byzantine empires most important pllar. The small landholders and farmers/soldiers and caused the landed aristocracy to gain too much wealth and power which n turn caused the structural ssue that truly caused the decline of the empre. . Also it would be advisable for Basil if possible for Basil to give out military ranks not based on Nobility as his predecessors did but based on merit, so that a larger pool of well traned and pofessonal offcers could be created.
 
hmm do you think Basil can eventually reverse the edicts of Nkephoros Phokas. Cause that Emperor started the process that led to the dissolution of the byzantine empires most important pllar. The small landholders and farmers/soldiers and caused the landed aristocracy to gain too much wealth and power which n turn caused the structural ssue that truly caused the decline of the empre. . Also it would be advisable for Basil if possible for Basil to give out military ranks not based on Nobility as his predecessors did but based on merit, so that a larger pool of well traned and pofessonal offcers could be created.

Bit too late there. I think that's what Basil did IOTL and I'm sticking with that.
 
Going over the upcoming years, I'm thinking of getting the Fatimids more involved in conflicts against the Seljuks, especially since it involves a POD concerning two certain Arab tribes and some regions of North Africa, which I have a soft spot for.

As for the Seljuks, I'd like to give the Romans a victory in a way that doesn't make it seem too one-sided, even though they've had victories against other nomadic armies in the past. And then there are the Turkmen tribes...

Any thoughts before I post the next update? Now's the time to post them.
 
As for the Seljuks, I'd like to give the Romans a victory in a way that doesn't make it seem too one-sided, even though they've had victories against other nomadic armies in the past. And then there are the Turkmen tribes...

Well, you could always have the Byzantines barely scrape out a victory (or a defeat) and then pay the Seljuks to go somewhere else (maybe attack the Fatimids) - or, hell, even become mercs for the Empire (like Turcopoles) like what the Varangians became.

Turks could be masters of the land, scouting out and ambushing the Byzantine army well before the latter actually catches sight of the former. Deep raids for plunder rather than territory could also provoke the Byzantine army into making some unwise moves.
 

Deleted member 67076

This timeline has been going great so far. Only real criticism would be stylistic; the switch between narratives and textbook style happens a bit fast and out of the blue sometimes. But so far, everything is gopd.
 
Well, you could always have the Byzantines barely scrape out a victory (or a defeat) and then pay the Seljuks to go somewhere else (maybe attack the Fatimids) - or, hell, even become mercs for the Empire (like Turcopoles) like what the Varangians became.

Turks could be masters of the land, scouting out and ambushing the Byzantine army well before the latter actually catches sight of the former. Deep raids for plunder rather than territory could also provoke the Byzantine army into making some unwise moves.

Well, the Turks had already converted to Islam, gradually and peacefully. I'm not sure how many Varangians were Orthodox Christians or how many stayed in Constantinople long-term. I could be wrong but I'd imagine any Turks who converted to Christianity in the service of the empire would be seen as pariahs by the rest of their people, thus unlikely to return home. Any attempts to settle them on imperial lands might result in problems similar the foederati of the Western Roman Empire.

I specifically mentioned the Turkmens as a problem because they couldn't be controlled, even when there was peace IOTL between Alp Arslan and Romanos IV. Not sure how much of the desertification of Central and Eastern Anatolia and/or Armenia can attributed to them either. In short, I'm starting to reconsider an all-out war against the Turks and instead thinking of having John follow a Fabian strategy, trying to wear the Turks down.

I guess one solution would be Seljuk succession - whether or not civil war would break out if Tughril, Chagri Beg or Chagri Beg's sons, including Alp Arslan, die. Any thoughts?

This timeline has been going great so far. Only real criticism would be stylistic; the switch between narratives and textbook style happens a bit fast and out of the blue sometimes. But so far, everything is gopd.

Thanks. Don't worry, the last update is the last narrative-style post. Expect a new update later.

Speaking of updates. I initially wanted to keep the ERE in it's 1025 AD borders, but I'm considering a pseudo-Justinian-style reconquest of Syria, Palestine, Egypt, North Africa, Sardinia and parts of Algeria, which I may only cover in the finale post. Said post will be set sometime in the future, say 1118 AD. But I'll get some different opinions first before anything is set in stone.
 
1048-1051 AD:

The time John spent training his soldiers also gave him time to fully consider his strategy against the Turks. If he sent an entire army against these marauders, they could pick away until there was nothing left, or they might be lured into an ambush and routed, if not destroyed. He thanked God for the 50,000-strong local militia in Armenia. John would decide to utilise the terrain to his advantage. This campaign would be decided, not by the Kataphractoi and Skoutatoi, but by the Akritae and the Hippo-toxotai, the skirmishers and horse-archers. Following the advice of the Roman dictator, Quintus Fabius Maximus, John decided that the best way to fight these marauding bands of Muslim fanatics was to not be drawn into open battle.

This strategy appeared to work. The Seljuks could not bait the Romans out of their cities and fortresses and could not assault the walls in time before news of a larger force approaching reached them. As for the nomads, they lived off the land, so the land was where the traps would be set. Any attempts to penetrate into Anatolia were usually foiled at the Taurus Mountains. One group that made it as far as Iconium was personally destroyed by John and his son, Basil. Three years of this strategy was taking its toll on John's popularity. Eudokia wasn't happy that John wasn't spending time with her or their children. The nobles and peasants were angry that their lands were being burned and pillaged. The Armenians in particular had to be held in place in order to ensure the strategy's success. Finally, John and Tughril, both tired from the war, agree to a truce. Tughril had been asked by the Abbasid Caliph Al-Qa'im to expel the Shiite Buyids from Mesopotamia, and there were rumblings of discontent in his own family back in Khorasan.

1051-1054 AD:

John kept his end of the truce. He would need to for his rebuilding program to take place. It was no small task - refugees and Turkish converts would have to be relocated, fortresses, towns and cities would need to be built and rebuilt, with some help from Norman engineers. John, seeing no choice, raised taxes on the peasantry, but only slightly. The nobility bore still bore the brunt of his laws, and their discontent finally boiled over into a rebellion in Phyrigia by Gregory Taronites in 1052 AD. George Maniakes was sent against the rebels, but when he arrived, Gregory had already been killed by his soldiers who swore proclaimed him emperor instead. George Maniakes, now feeling ignored by the emperor and upset at the tax increase, readily agreed. The rebel army marched towards Constantinople but was halted at Nicomedia by Isaac Komnenos and Nikephoros Bryennios. During the battle, George Maniakes was killed after receiving a fatal wound in battle. Without a leader, the rebellion collapsed. John mourned Maniakes' senseless death. As a reward, John made Isaac the new Catepan of Italy.

In 1054, the aging emperor agreed to marry Basil to a daughter of Bagrat IV of Georgia, even though Basil had fallen in love with the daughter of a Crimean Goth. As it turned out, when the Georgian princess arrived, she was 15 turning 16, more Alexander's age than Basil, who was 28 years old. Furthermore, she wasn't even Bagrat's daughter, but a member of a family branch in Alania. Taking pity on the girl, who was renamed Eirene, and seeing Alexander's infatuation with her, married them instead and allowed basil to marry the Gothic girl. John still worried for the future of the realm he and his father had worked so hard to protect. He had feared there would be animosity between Basil and his half-siblings, but surprisingly, they got on very well, as if they were born to the same mother. Still John worried. At one point he turned to a mystic for help, who gave him an 'answer':

"Why seek the future when it is the past that you need?"

John pondered what this meant. After going through the great library, he realised what he and his sons would have to do - Four hundred years ago, a single loss at Yarmouk had opened Syria, Palestine, Egypt and North Africa to the first followers of the Prophet. But there were still Christians in those lands, and if the Romans played their cards right, those lands could be forever liberated from the Mohammedans. The time would come soon. The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo were losing more power to their viziers, and though they had briefly taken Baghdad, the tribes that had bore the brunt of the fighting - the Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym * - were nearly wiped out by the main Seljuk/Abbasid army. John personally took charge of his sons' education, seeing in them the best and brightest hope for restoring the empire of Justinian and Maurice.

Finally, Patriarch Michael Cerularius received a letter from the Pope Leo IX in Rome, which proclaimed his position as rightful head of all Christianity, citing the Donation of Constantine as proof. Michael outright refused the claim, while John personally sent correspondence to Rome, diplomatically telling the Pope to "reconsider the time and place for such a discussion or else I will come to Rome myself and 'donate' the 'Donatio' in whatever orifice I believe suitable at the time." Despite Leo's death, the letters are taken as a threat of attack against the Papacy itself, and a Latin cardinal nails a bull of excommunication. Patriarch Michael threatens to excommunicate the Bishop of Rome in turn, but John holds him in check. Legally, the bull means nothing due to Leo's death, so John politely requests the Patriarch discuss the matter no further, or else he will make him well and truly celibate...
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*: IOTL the Fatimids sent them against the Zirids in North Africa, where they caused untold damage to the agriculture of the region.
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Children of John II Makedon:

Basil - Theodora of Gothia
Agatha - Nikephoros Diogenes
Alexander - Eirene of Alania
Leo
Stephen - betrothed to Maria Komnenos
 
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Speaking of updates. I initially wanted to keep the ERE in it's 1025 AD borders, but I'm considering a pseudo-Justinian-style reconquest of Syria, Palestine, Egypt, North Africa, Sardinia and parts of Algeria, which I may only cover in the finale post. Said post will be set sometime in the future, say 1118 AD. But I'll get some different opinions first before anything is set in stone.

I cant wait to see this coming
 
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