Thoughts/Ideas for a Motown Media Empire?

(Admittedly not sure if I'm posting right, but I guess I'll see) Hi! While it's still a bit before I think I might work on a full timeline, I've sort of been mulling on one idea where Berry Gordy is able to make Motown a larger media empire (With films and such), which at least remains successful through the '80s. In our timeline, it largely failed when The Wiz bombed and Motown's music itself declined through the '80s, before it was eventually bought up by another studio.

The two points I was thinking for a good PoD were either a.) Around or before 1972, with Gordy deciding to not move the company to L.A. (What many said was the start of its decline, leaving many talent in the area behind and generally not being able to compete), or b.) in 1978 with an alternate good/successful Wiz, possibly predicated on Diana Ross not forcing herself in as Dorothy (The failure of the movie basically ended Motown Productions). Any thoughts on which would be the more "successful" PoD, or another possible PoD that I may be overlooking? Or even assuming it's possible for a Motown "media empire" as I'm hoping, lol. Pointers for research would also be welcome.
 
One of the early ideas for my ongoing TL included Motown Productions becoming a major media company due to a more successful Civil Rights Movement.

Not only did they own BET, but they also bought 20th Century Fox in the late 1970s as well.
 
I thought of Motown having a stake in BET [and its ATL radio counterpart(s)].
I'm not sure if them grabbing a stake in that would really save them, at least assuming that this becomes the point of divergence and their film and music division still failed/are failing. I could definitely imagine them buying or effectively creating an alternate version of BET were they successful beforehand, though.
One of the early ideas for my ongoing TL included Motown Productions becoming a major media company due to a more successful Civil Rights Movement.

Not only did they own BET, but they also bought 20th Century Fox in the late 1970s as well.
Ooooh, I could definitely see that coming about. With the timeline I'm conceiving though, I'd want to imagine the PoD and rise to success coming from internal factors within the company or entertainment industry, rather than from external factors of the country or culture, assuming that may be possible without alternate history magic.
 
Maybe Motown buys RKO and builds up from that?
Hmm, Motown pulling a Hensonverse with a weak studio could be interesting. Unfortunately, RKO Pictures was basically dead by the time Motown was in its heyday (The film studio was dissolved in 1959, when Motown itself was founded), and once they were briefly revived in the 1980s, Motown's decline was already underway. If they did it at some point in the '60s or '70s, they'd basically be either buying up RKO General entirely, which was a bunch of different radio stations (Likely a case for an antitrust suit) and TV stations, or just the name and possibly library for RKO, which means they'd have to build up from scratch anyway.

Still, I could see it maybe bring a few positive things. It could get them more connections with Hollywood and take up a more famous name to work under for a more general audience. Maybe purchasing just one TV station and focusing on TV from there could be a possibility too? If there's another studio they could maybe do this with, I could imagine them trying it with them instead, although I'm not sure what other active studio from their heyday was weak enough for a purchase or at least a major stake.
 
I've been looking into several Motown-related things myself and found out that, among other things, Motown had a bunch of labels for various kinds of music. Tamla Records predates the Motown name, and it, Motown Records and Gordy Records (preceeded by Miracle Records - "if it's a hit, it's a Miracle") were three major divisions of Motown (as well as non-US label Tamla Motown).

However, they had tried to go outside of the specific niche the name "Motown" became associated with. They had two attempts at a country label - Mel-o-dy (which actually didn't start out that way, being another R&B subsidiary at first) and Hitsville (formerly Melodyland). They signed a rock band called Rare Earth and had a rock label named after them, later succeeded by Prodigal Records which Motown purchased, and yet another attempt at a rock label was Morocco Records (MOtown ROCk COmpany). These are more of a curiosity in Motown's history, at least that's how it comes off to me. Maybe there's potential somewhere in here? I can't say for certain.

Moving on from here, there was a TV series called Sidekicks, and its pilot TV movie was produced by Motown. Don't know how useful is that fact, but it may be something worth a thought. Motown also had a video game subsidiary, apparently, but only two games that Motown Software released were Bébé's Kids and Rap Jam: Volume One, and neither was any good if reviews are to go by.
 
Hmm, Motown pulling a Hensonverse with a weak studio could be interesting. Unfortunately, RKO Pictures was basically dead by the time Motown was in its heyday (The film studio was dissolved in 1959, when Motown itself was founded), and once they were briefly revived in the 1980s, Motown's decline was already underway. If they did it at some point in the '60s or '70s, they'd basically be either buying up RKO General entirely, which was a bunch of different radio stations (Likely a case for an antitrust suit) and TV stations, or just the name and possibly library for RKO, which means they'd have to build up from scratch anyway.

Still, I could see it maybe bring a few positive things. It could get them more connections with Hollywood and take up a more famous name to work under for a more general audience. Maybe purchasing just one TV station and focusing on TV from there could be a possibility too? If there's another studio they could maybe do this with, I could imagine them trying it with them instead, although I'm not sure what other active studio from their heyday was weak enough for a purchase or at least a major stake.
Right, but maybe Motown could bring Roger Corman and someone else in or could buy/merge with MGM?
I've been looking into several Motown-related things myself and found out that, among other things, Motown had a bunch of labels for various kinds of music. Tamla Records predates the Motown name, and it, Motown Records and Gordy Records (preceeded by Miracle Records - "if it's a hit, it's a Miracle") were three major divisions of Motown (as well as non-US label Tamla Motown).

However, they had tried to go outside of the specific niche the name "Motown" became associated with. They had two attempts at a country label - Mel-o-dy (which actually didn't start out that way, being another R&B subsidiary at first) and Hitsville (formerly Melodyland). They signed a rock band called Rare Earth and had a rock label named after them, later succeeded by Prodigal Records which Motown purchased, and yet another attempt at a rock label was Morocco Records (MOtown ROCk COmpany). These are more of a curiosity in Motown's history, at least that's how it comes off to me. Maybe there's potential somewhere in here? I can't say for certain.

Moving on from here, there was a TV series called Sidekicks, and its pilot TV movie was produced by Motown. Don't know how useful is that fact, but it may be something worth a thought. Motown also had a video game subsidiary, apparently, but only two games that Motown Software released were Bébé's Kids and Rap Jam: Volume One, and neither was any good if reviews are to go by.
Right. Perhaps here they get more money to do bigger and better things?
 
Right, but maybe Motown could bring Roger Corman and someone else in or could buy/merge with MGM?
Yeah, I've been starting to mull over between these. While they would still need to restart a studio in RKO, bringing in Corman, with his infamously shoestring budgets and short schedules, along with his connections to the New Hollywood crowd, could definitely give them a way in to becoming more of a bigger studio later on. The only issue might be that, if they do plan to go for bigger pictures, it'd probably inevitably clash with Corman's own style of "bottom-of-the-barrel budget with extremely high concept" films (As happened when he briefly worked with major studios in our timeline). Still, he could be a good ground-level person, and it might work if there was someone with him working on larger films. I'd probably need to see what film persons or executives would be floating around at this time to make these work.

MGM is also a really interesting prospect (Imagine The Wizard of Oz people making The Wiz?), and it could line up given the state that MGM was in during the late '60s, although it may come down to a bit of timing. Kirk Kerkorian bought the studio in 1969, and was mainly interested in just using its name and properties/assets for his hotel business, with his appointed president James T. Aubrey Jr. gutting much of the studio to a lesser form, even if it lead to some profitability. While I doubt Kerkorian would give up the studio or name as a whole after having just bought it, I could see him partnering with Motown and letting them take control of the studio while he kept full control of the name, or something like that. Depending on Gordy's pre-1972 interest in Hollywood and the fiscal success of the record at the time, there may even be a vague chance of him acquiring/merging with/taking majority stake of MGM before Kerkorian took it over, though I'd probably have to take a deeper look into Motown history and financial aspects before then.

EDIT: Also thinking that maybe Columbia could work as well and even might be easier, if the resources I've found about it are correct. I'm not too sure if the possibilities that may come from them would be as interesting, though.
 
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hammo1j

Donor
I guess they left Detroit because on the 70s recession making it an unpleasant place to live and it's still not recovered yet possibly.

PoD could actually be no Arab Israeli war and gas prices quadrupling so chrome plated gas guzzlers still in demand!
 
I guess they left Detroit because on the 70s recession making it an unpleasant place to live and it's still not recovered yet possibly.

PoD could actually be no Arab Israeli war and gas prices quadrupling so chrome plated gas guzzlers still in demand!
A stronger Detroit would be interesting, but in regards to Motown the record label, they had already left Detroit for L.A. in 1972 (And was preparing to leave before then) by the time the gas crisis hit the next year. If I remember, it was mostly due to the rise in crime in major American cities that was occurring at that point, and a likely related smaller economic decline that was occurring in the U.S. at that time. Besides that, I think that Motown's efforts to become a film producer as well would always push it to move out, unless they have some change in mindset. Could be interesting though if, perhaps, Motown ends up becoming the source of much of the city's employment and/or helps change its industry.
What happened to Detroit in the 70s?
Detroit was once the car production capital of the U.S., if not the world, being the headquarters of GMC and Ford, among others, and formerly their main manufacturing locations (Hence where Motown, from "Motor City", got its name). With the gas crisis of the early '70s, however, these companies faced a major hit in their profit. As many of their cars at the time were enormous beasts with poor gas mileage, it lead many consumers to instead turn to more fuel efficient Japanese cars, allowing those companies to overtake American manufacturers as the no. 1 producer of cars in the world. These factors, and other economic issues at the time, basically crippled the city's main industry, and lead to its sever population decline and infamy for it unemployment and crime. Other later factors would continue to hurt the city, but this was the real start to its woes over the past half-century.
 
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The car industry went to the dogs, because petrol skyrocketed...
A stronger Detroit would be interesting, but in regards to Motown the record label, they had already left Detroit for L.A. in 1972 (And was preparing to leave before then) by the time the gas crisis hit the next year. If I remember, it was mostly due to the rise in crime in major American cities that was occurring at that point, and a likely related smaller economic decline that was occurring in the U.S. at that time. Besides that, I think that Motown's efforts to become a film producer as well would always push it to move out, unless they have some change in mindset. Could be interesting though if, perhaps, Motown ends up becoming the source of much of the city's employment and/or helps change its industry.

Detroit was once the car production capital of the U.S., if not the world, being the headquarters of GMC and Ford, among others, and formerly their main manufacturing locations (Hence where Motown, from "Motor City", got its name). With the gas crisis of the early '70s, however, these companies faced a major hit in their profit. As many of their cars at the time were enormous beasts with poor gas mileage, it lead many consumers to instead turn to more fuel efficient Japanese cars, allowing those companies to overtake American manufacturers as the no. 1 producer of cars in the world. These factors, and other economic issues at the time, basically crippled the city's main industry, and lead to its sever population decline and infamy for it unemployment and crime. Other later factors would continue to hurt the city, but this was the real start to its woes over the past half-century.
Oh.......................................................................................................

So that's how Detroit got it's bad rep that it does now?

On the other hand, how can Motown/MGM work?
 
I still want to hang on the idea of Motown as a name in music growing beyond Motown sound, if for no reason other than me listening to "Flashes" (a song from the trio Tiggi Clay released on Morocco Records which I mentioned above) a lot recently. It is a vibe, in my defence.
 

hammo1j

Donor
I think Berry / Ross becoming Motown's Anthony and Cleopatra had a lot to do with the decline.

They looked for a superstar rather than a broad platform of fantastic acts.
 

hammo1j

Donor
A stronger Detroit would be interesting, but in regards to Motown the record label, they had already left Detroit for L.A. in 1972 (And was preparing to leave before then) by the time the gas crisis hit the next year. If I remember, it was mostly due to the rise in crime in major American cities that was occurring at that point, and a likely related smaller economic decline that was occurring in the U.S. at that time. Besides that, I think that Motown's efforts to become a film producer as well would always push it to move out, unless they have some change in mindset. Could be interesting though if, perhaps, Motown ends up becoming the source of much of the city's employment and/or helps change its industry.

Detroit was once the car production capital of the U.S., if not the world, being the headquarters of GMC and Ford, among others, and formerly their main manufacturing locations (Hence where Motown, from "Motor City", got its name). With the gas crisis of the early '70s, however, these companies faced a major hit in their profit. As many of their cars at the time were enormous beasts with poor gas mileage, it lead many consumers to instead turn to more fuel efficient Japanese cars, allowing those companies to overtake American manufacturers as the no. 1 producer of cars in the world. These factors, and other economic issues at the time, basically crippled the city's main industry, and lead to its sever population decline and infamy for it unemployment and crime. Other later factors would continue to hurt the city, but this was the real start to its woes over the past half-century.
Irony is that RoboCop is set in 'Old Detroit,.

Assumes Detroit's woes go on way past that half century!
 

hammo1j

Donor
They could have gone bigger on Disco. Was Edwin Starr still with them when he had 'Eye to Eye Contact' ?
 
On the other hand, how can Motown/MGM work?
Yeah, that's still been tricking me, especially since I'm not sure how it would kick off with what kind of "purchase" Berry Gordy could or would make, if at all possible. My best guess is either just acquiring a major stake in the company somehow, making a deal with Kerkorian in company control, or somehow getting a "merger" together.

How it goes from there can be tricky too, since, at least at this point in research, I'm not too sure what Gordy's management could be like or who he'd be able to appoint that could help the studio get off the ground again. I could imagine at least some improvements over our timeline automatically with a.) The head at least being interested in actually making movies rather than trying to gut what's there and focusing on hotels, b.) Some possible new and fresh perspectives depending on whom he appoints, c.) A more genuine push into making TV (As Motown was already doing with its TV specials and series, which they originally created Motown Productions to do), and d.) Some possible synergy between MGM Records and Motown Records.

Admittedly though, all of this pretty loose speculation, but it's probably the best way to kill two birds with one stone since I'm not too sure what else I could do for an internally-driven PoD for either Motown or MGM (At least, without basically making two separate PoDs and/or trying to make two timelines which cover the same track of time). Plus, the idea of these two companies coming together and the possible movies they could make is really interesting to me, regardless of realism, lol
I've been looking into several Motown-related things myself and found out that, among other things, Motown had a bunch of labels for various kinds of music. Tamla Records predates the Motown name, and it, Motown Records and Gordy Records (preceeded by Miracle Records - "if it's a hit, it's a Miracle") were three major divisions of Motown (as well as non-US label Tamla Motown).

However, they had tried to go outside of the specific niche the name "Motown" became associated with. They had two attempts at a country label - Mel-o-dy (which actually didn't start out that way, being another R&B subsidiary at first) and Hitsville (formerly Melodyland). They signed a rock band called Rare Earth and had a rock label named after them, later succeeded by Prodigal Records which Motown purchased, and yet another attempt at a rock label was Morocco Records (MOtown ROCk COmpany). These are more of a curiosity in Motown's history, at least that's how it comes off to me. Maybe there's potential somewhere in here? I can't say for certain.

Moving on from here, there was a TV series called Sidekicks, and its pilot TV movie was produced by Motown. Don't know how useful is that fact, but it may be something worth a thought. Motown also had a video game subsidiary, apparently, but only two games that Motown Software released were Bébé's Kids and Rap Jam: Volume One, and neither was any good if reviews are to go by.
I still want to hang on the idea of Motown as a name in music growing beyond Motown sound, if for no reason other than me listening to "Flashes" (a song from the trio Tiggi Clay released on Morocco Records which I mentioned above) a lot recently. It is a vibe, in my defence.
From what research I've done, I'm admittedly not sure what the difference between Motown's three main labels (Motown, Tamla, and Gordy) were, outside of certain business reasons (Radio wanting different labels, slightly different appeals, not wanting somewhat similar artists to compete, etc.). But yeah, Motown expanding beyond their original sound is real interesting to me too, and probably necessary if they'd want to continue on as their own company. Partnering/joining with MGM Records could help them get their foot in the door with different sounds too, assuming I go with the MGM joining idea.

The only thing I wonder about is whether they can avoid the same decline as happened in our timeline. While I'm still researching a lot of this, much of the decline of Motown, as it looks to me, came from several factors, including the competition from other labels that added black music to their rosters, an inability to go on new sounds or take in new artists, and arguably Berry Gordy himself, tragically and ironically, as his insistence on creative control and avoiding certain social or political topics (Alongside several instances of unfair royalties that sent off HDH and others) possibly contributed to this stagnation (It would push the Jackson 5 to move to a new label in 1975). Maybe the era of "New Hollywood" could influence him to allow more creative control and sounds in Motown?

Also, cool as a Motowns game company is, that was made post-MCA sale, so by that point, it had essentially "lost" by what I'm trying to consider for the timeline.
I think Berry / Ross becoming Motown's Anthony and Cleopatra had a lot to do with the decline.

They looked for a superstar rather than a broad platform of fantastic acts.
They could have gone bigger on Disco. Was Edwin Starr still with them when he had 'Eye to Eye Contact' ?
That focus on superstars is arguably another point as well. And yeah, a move to capitalize on disco could work, although it may bite them in the butt if disco ends up with the same backlash it did in our timeline. It would definitely do them good to have wider or more evolved genres, though. Edwin Starr had left the label by that point, aparently, as "Eye-to-Eye" was apparently distributed by 20th Century Fox Records.
 
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