The Soviets would likely have hit them anyway. With events in Europe NZ was probably as safe as Switzerland.
There Is No Depression: Protect and Survive New Zealand
- Thread starter Tsar of New Zealand
- Start date
Yes, a bit of irony in that statement, particularly the similarities - small states of a few million people, each receiving two nuclear weapons and emerging one of the most prosperous states post-Exchange, albeit by very different routes: where the Swiss went all in on Civil Defence, the Kiwis blundered through (and of course, being a full-fledged and at least prima facie devoted ANZUS member was only ever going to get some kind of malign attention from the Soviets).
That's why it's so hard for New Zealanders to understand the British view; the sheer scale of the devastation and crisis is hard for anyone Down Under to grasp.
And that's that.
Thanks for the great read. I've had a single post coda/flashback idea inspired by your work bouncing around in my head for a while now, might be time to pen it (with your permission) now.
More or less - a Qantas 747-238 making its way from Melbourne to Portsmouth (via Geraldton, Réunion, and Ascension, doglegging all the way around South Africa to avoid any unpleasantness. If that's implausible based on atmospheric conditions I'll rescind it, but it's essentially a one-off charter flight on behalf of the Australian and NZ Governments.
Thanks for the praise! Fire me a PM regarding the coda.
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Much appreciated. I rewrote it about four or five times. Now to go and do the same for the rest of the TL. My research was quite rough-and-ready for the most part, and it shows - what grates on me most is my characterisations; this story is above all about how individuals in certain positions in the very odd position of early-1984 New Zealand would respond to a nuclear war, so I want to get those right.
I think it about came right at the end, though. Ambiguous, with enough room for the reader to read in as much optimism or pessimism as they like.
BarbaraChandler
Banned
While reading through those last few paragraphs, a tune kept nagging at me.
I've found it.
Bravo.
I've found it.
Bravo.
Indeed. My view generally is that you capture the voice of rural/80s NZ, so far as you and I know what that means, being loyal sons of coastal Otago
@Tsar of New Zealand
First of all, sincere congratulations to finishing There Is No Depression.
I haven't followed this as closely as I wanted to, but it's been a busy year. Now I have the perfect excuse for a long, long catch-up read.
On this first Sunday of Advent, here's my early Christmas present:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/wiki/doku.php?id=timelines:there_is_no_depression
Everything's updated, I think. Let me know if I missed something. Interludes, minor data or trivia focused chapters, that sort of stuff.
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You know, I'm already a bit unsure what the successful conclusion of this TL means for the future of this shared universe. I don't like being pessimistic, but your TL very well might be the end of an era. Like the Strangerverse before it, the popularity of P&S will probably keep fading, until it remains just a past endeavour here on the site. Given that I'll probably never manage to write my Czechoslovak spinoff, I'm getting the impression your TL might be the last bigger contribution to this project for a good while. However, I hope I'll be proven wrong and we'll still see some new and equally breathtaking stories set in the P&S universe.
Either way, this is getting a Turtledove nomination from me, come January. Good work, and a very welcomed contribution to narratives about ATL New Zealand on this site.
First of all, sincere congratulations to finishing There Is No Depression.
I haven't followed this as closely as I wanted to, but it's been a busy year. Now I have the perfect excuse for a long, long catch-up read.On this first Sunday of Advent, here's my early Christmas present:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/wiki/doku.php?id=timelines:there_is_no_depression
Everything's updated, I think. Let me know if I missed something. Interludes, minor data or trivia focused chapters, that sort of stuff.
----
You know, I'm already a bit unsure what the successful conclusion of this TL means for the future of this shared universe. I don't like being pessimistic, but your TL very well might be the end of an era. Like the Strangerverse before it, the popularity of P&S will probably keep fading, until it remains just a past endeavour here on the site.
Given that I'll probably never manage to write my Czechoslovak spinoff, I'm getting the impression your TL might be the last bigger contribution to this project for a good while. However, I hope I'll be proven wrong and we'll still see some new and equally breathtaking stories set in the P&S universe. Either way, this is getting a Turtledove nomination from me, come January.
Good work, and a very welcomed contribution to narratives about ATL New Zealand on this site.@Tsar of New Zealand
First of all, sincere congratulations to finishing There Is No Depression.
On this first Sunday of Advent, here's my early Christmas present:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/wiki/doku.php?id=timelines:there_is_no_depression
Everything's updated, I think. Let me know if I missed something. Interludes, minor data or trivia focused chapters, that sort of stuff.
Looks great! Thanks for the effort!
You know, I'm already a bit unsure what the successful conclusion of this TL means for the future of this shared universe. I don't like being pessimistic, but your TL very well might be the end of an era. Like the Strangerverse before it, the popularity of P&S will probably keep fading, until it remains just a past endeavour here on the site.
Either way, this is getting a Turtledove nomination from me, come January.
Have you seen wolverinethad's Miami spinoff? Highly recommend it to all readers of this thread; it is simply the best contribution to the extended universe I've seen so far in terms of depicting the pre-war period with painstaking detail. I'd also encourage you to write that Czechoslovak TL; we're sorely in need of something between Munich and Magadan to fill in the gaps, and it'd be fascinating to get a look at things from the other side of the Iron Curtain.
It's not quite the end of the road for this TL, either; I'm working on a few retroactive updates, four or five chapters at the start to paint a better picture of the country in the Transition-to-War period, tidy up some characterisations, and overhaul some of the clumsier pieces of writing. Nothing's set in stone yet (just look at how long the final update took!), but I'm hoping to have the comprehensive version done by (Southern Hemisphere) spring 2018.
Finally, an open thank-you to everyone who gave their time to read and comment on this TL. I'm happy to have finished my first big-boy TL on this site, and it's been a learning experience from start to finish. The readers' contributions help me make it better, and challenge me to improve upon myself with every new update. It's been fun, and if there's any questions or comments left on your minds, I'm all too ready to give some answers.
Cheers,
Tsar
I don't like being pessimistic, but your TL very well might be the end of an era. Like the Strangerverse before it, the popularity of P&S will probably keep fading, until it remains just a past endeavour here on the site.
I do have at least one more idea that I might write sometime. I do also see your Czechoslovak TL as well.
I agree. Over the course of decades, trade-chains will have re-established with massive initial difficulties, but expanding as soon as either fuel is at hand reliably; or alternate modes of transportations have become common.
Especially a nation such as New Zealand which will after a while be able to FEED itself still AND possesses intact harbours, will not allow the developing surplus of workers to be idle, will seek to re-establish its wealth by sending ships out over the oceans.
Maybe they will find re-organized formerly 3rd-world-countries who have caught up during the power vacuum, so trade will be costlier. Maybe there will be neo-colonialism with connections to small trading outposts and possession of limited areas around mines and plantations.
Especially a nation such as New Zealand which will after a while be able to FEED itself still AND possesses intact harbours, will not allow the developing surplus of workers to be idle, will seek to re-establish its wealth by sending ships out over the oceans.
Maybe they will find re-organized formerly 3rd-world-countries who have caught up during the power vacuum, so trade will be costlier. Maybe there will be neo-colonialism with connections to small trading outposts and possession of limited areas around mines and plantations.
Thanks - was worried the phrasing came off as a bit poncy, but the in-universe author is indulging in some purple prose.
Fair call. The relationship with the Pacific island nations is staying put in the condescending quasi-colonialism of the OTL 1980s (and OTL 2010s, come to think of it) ITTL, so there's certainly markets and trade partners there. As developed nations New Zealand and Australia have never had any real scruples about neo-colonialism (see: Nauru, phosphate mining on), so I can imagine them using their advantages in a perhaps not wholly altruistic fashion (see: OTL's aid programmes, especially post-2008 NZAID which is effectively a vehicle for enriching NZ-owned businesses).
The islands will be hit hard by shortages of fuel, but should get by tolerably. The standard of living will deteriorate slightly but plateau far above those of areas actually hit with nuclear weapons; at the same time, the moribund tourist trade (probably until at least the early 90s) will slow recovery. ITTL 2017, the South Pacific is probably a poorer place than IOTL, but existing slightly above subsistence is ahead of the curve here so it shakes out about on par.
I had operated under the assumption that tropical fruit and chocolate would remain luxury goods of the once-a-week/fortnight variety, to convey that life has gotten better since 1984, but remains less convenient in some ways.
If there's any alternative suggestions for things unlikely to be procured for a reasonable, but not unattainable, price, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I'll delete the offending passage and replace it with something akin to OTL (like having to wait for the Post Office to install a telephone, hinting at deregulation like OTL) for verisimilitude's sake.
Honestly, I was just reaching for a third thing to fill out that list of things people born after the crisis can't quite believe having easy access to.
Echoing On the Beach, how about petrol as something that can be had for a certain price, but certainly isn't used as freely as it was pre-1984.
On the one hand, the technology behind the electric car will take much longer to come, but in a P&S world, there would be more urgency to develop it.
On the one hand, the technology behind the electric car will take much longer to come, but in a P&S world, there would be more urgency to develop it.
That's perfect! It'd be nice to throw in a Nevil Shute reference, too.