Theology: Did Calvinism take over Protestantism?

[Strategos' Risk]

Not literally, this isn't the Golden Compass/His Dark Materials series. But I mean in the Anglo-American world, it seems like a pseudo-Calvinist tradition via the Puritans and Pilgrims and all these guys made up Protestantism as we know it in the Anglosphere world today. Okay maybe in the American world, mostly. I guess I've kind of answered my question via my brief research- it seems like because Calvinist groups from Britain fled to New England, and America rose to prominence, their brand of Protestantism is what we know of. When we talk about the Protestant Work Ethic, we talk of Calvin, much less so of Luther. And when we think about modern American-style capitalism, and stuff like the Prosperity Gospel we definitely talk about Calvinists. Are Evangelicals descended also from Anglo-American Calvinist denominations?

Anyway, I wonder theologically speaking, what if Lutheranism had a bigger impact outside of Central and Northern Europe. I would think that it had less- innovations- upon Catholic doctrine than Calvinism had, what with double predestination and TULIP and all that jazz

 

[Hazazel]

I wouldn't say that Calvinism took over Protestantism. Rather the Magisterial Reformation splintered into two camps (a process that can be seen in the works very early on in the conflict between Luther and Swingli) and the Reformed camp just both spread and splintered more than the Lutheran one did. Most of modern Protestantism simply developed from the Reformed camp.

 

[Booster Gold]

I still see two distinct traditions with the Lutheran Protestants represented in the mainline denominations and the Calvinists represented in the Evangelicals. Though the Calvinist evangelicals do seem to have the upper hand as of late, that's only in America. In Britain they are all but non-existent.

As much of an Anglophile as I am, I can both not blame them for dumping their religious zealots on the colonies and never forgive them for it.

 

[Hazazel]

Most modern Evangelicals would be offended if you called them Calvinist. Calvinist tends to mean: "someone who believes in predestination" and most modern Evangelicals believe in free will in way that even the Arminius would see as heretical.

 

[Deimos]

One of the problems is that Calvinism is often used as a shorthand for the Reformed denominations but not all Reformed Christians adhere to the teachings of Calvin. Compare for example Arminanism with Calvininism.

In a sense Calvinism did take over Lutheranism. Calvin was regarded as one of the greatest reformers during his time and was a good friend of Melanchthon who became one of the great systematic Lutheran reformers after the death of Luther. It was only after the Consensus Tigurinus where Calvin reached a compromise with the remnants of Zwingli over the issue of the Eucharist that Calvin was no longer considered a bridge between Lutheranism and Reformed Christians.
That is what can be said of the time when Calvin was alive but his work helped to shape something very different from Lutheranism. The difference is best seen in the way they tried to build their congregation. Luther allied himself with the nobles while Calvin tried to make a model out of Geneva. This model is proved to be a lot more mobile and worked better in small social circles. Luther dreamed of reforming the whole Catholic Church while Calvin focused on encouraging small splinters and evangelical refugees from all over Europe to keep their faith. The idea of a mostly self-sufficient congregation that depended on local support proved to be far more easy to export than to build ties to any rulers and convincing them first.

Theologically speaking, Calvinism did not really overtake Lutheranism although it can be argued that most Lutheran churches do not really adhere to their doctrinal views on the Eucharist and quietly adopted a more Calvinist approach over time. Similarly, many Calvinists, for fear of being attacked for their beliefs in predestination, usually do not emphasise this contentious part of their doctrine.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

I suppose in views of salvation, Calvinism didn't beat Lutheranism, either. I'm not really sure where exactly Evangelical/non-denominational Protestant churches descend from- I guess they're not Calvinist, either. I'm talking about the "decide for Christ" type of salvation that's been popularized in 20th century America ever since Billy Graham, and before him.

 

[Hazazel]

I suppose in views of salvation, Calvinism didn't beat Lutheranism, either. I'm not really sure where exactly Evangelical/non-denominational Protestant churches descend from- I guess they're not Calvinist, either. I'm talking about the "decide for Christ" type of salvation that's been popularized in 20th century America ever since Billy Graham, and before him.

This is overtly simplified but when it comes to salvation: Arminius > Wesley (John not Charles) > Finney > Modern Evangelicalism

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Yeah, I can see how decision theology would be more in line with Arminianism, your line of theologian descent makes sense. However, how did the denominations descend? Seems like modern Evangelicalism is less of a splinter denomination that split from prior churches, than a movement with shared characteristics amongst many different independent churches descended from all over Protestantism.

 

[Hazazel]

Yeah, I can see how decision theology would be more in line with Arminianism, your line of theologian descent makes sense. However, how did the denominations descend? Seems like modern Evangelicalism is less of a splinter denomination that split from prior churches, than a movement with shared characteristics amongst many different independent churches descended from all over Protestantism.

I kind of agree with you. Although, even "movement" may be a too strong of a word. I'd probably just say "subculture".

Few things that might have contributed to it's developement.

1. My understanding is that at some point of history (20th century?) para-church organizations became more important than local churches and denominations for many evangelicals. This is sort of process of shadow ecumenism by those who often don't care for the mainstream ecumenism.

2. Lowering of doctrinal content of Evangelicalism. Both Lutheran and Reformed orthodoxy are exhaustive and well defined systems of thought. They were followed by the Great Awakenings and Pietism which both put a great emphasis on personal commitment and experience. This was followed by early Fundamentalism which as a reaction to Modernism concentrated on (few) points of doctrine they thought were essential. Then (Neo)Evangelicalism concentrated on gospel which with time was stripped from almost all doctrinal content (no creed but Christ).

3. Political awakening of American Evangelicals in the later half of the 20th century combined with the influence they have among the Evangelicals around the world.

I think all of these might be closely related to development of Modern Evangelicalism and also to each other.

So something like: Confessionalism > Pietism > Fundamentalism > (Neo)Evangelicalism > Moral Majority > Modern Evangelicalism (Even more overtly simplified line of thought I admit)

 

[Tripledot]

I think Methodism (or maybe more accurately, Wesleyanism) is far more common and influential in America. Evangelicals are mostly descended from Methodists and the Holiness movement, I think.

 

[Mr. pollos]

In Britain they are all but non-existent..

My gut reaction was “Dawkins seems Calvinist enough.”, because:

Calvinist tends to mean: "someone who believes in predestination"

That doctrine of the Calvinists seems to be well and alive amongst modern intellectuals, even atheist ones...

 

[Strategos' Risk]

I think Methodism (or maybe more accurately, Wesleyanism) is far more common and influential in America. Evangelicals are mostly descended from Methodists and the Holiness movement, I think.

I wonder if Methodism is considered as a far-off descendent of Anglicanism?

Though I suppose it's not altogether helpful to consider Protestantism something that split off with Luther, Calvin, and Henry VIII and everything since is rooted in one of those three traditions. I guess the Wesleys and other latter day Protestants might have distinct theologies different from the rest.

 

[Tripledot]

I wonder if Methodism is considered as a far-off descendent of Anglicanism?

Though I suppose it's not altogether helpful to consider Protestantism something that split off with Luther, Calvin, and Henry VIII and everything since is rooted in one of those three traditions. I guess the Wesleys and other latter day Protestants might have distinct theologies different from the rest.

Well, yes, Methodism did branch off from Anglicanism, but it influenced other denominations like the Baptists.

 

[Zartog]

Anyway, I wonder theologically speaking, what if Lutheranism had a bigger impact outside of Central and Northern Europe. I would think that it had less- innovations- upon Catholic doctrine than Calvinism had, what with double predestination and TULIP and all that jazz

Protestantism would not have survived without Calvin.

Luther did most of the heavy lifting at the beginning in order to make protestantism possible. But he left many loose ends. It is Calvin who gave protestantism its first systematic and coherent theology and thus the beginning of its "orthodoxy". After Calvin, even those who did not agree with him defined their positions in relation to his. Without Calvin, protestantism would have splintered in a multitude of splinter groups far faster and to a far faster greater extent than it did IOTL and it would have lost any sort of credibility very soon.

 

[pattersonautobody]

It is interesting that Lutheranism really has become so much different than Calvinism, as Luther probably wrote more on the subject of Monergism than Calvin (heck, he wrote a book countering Erasamus' views on freedom of the will called Bondage of the Will.)

Even standard Catholic doctrine teaches that grace precedes conversion, and grace operates in the sacraments and in the will of the believer who partakes in them.

So really, the differences between most Christianity on "Calvinist" doctrines is really quite negligible, other than the issue of limited/unlimited atonement, which is a real battleground among the two.

Most of the "free will" Protestant types really come more from Wesley and liberalism than from any more ancient origins.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

I'm grateful that AH.com seems to have a good subset of posters who know Christian theology and church history.

 

[pattersonautobody]

Protestantism would not have survived without Calvin.

Luther did most of the heavy lifting at the beginning in order to make protestantism possible. But he left many loose ends. It is Calvin who gave protestantism its first systematic and coherent theology and thus the beginning of its "orthodoxy". After Calvin, even those who did not agree with him defined their positions in relation to his. Without Calvin, protestantism would have splintered in a multitude of splinter groups far faster and to a far faster greater extent than it did IOTL and it would have lost any sort of credibility very soon.

What happens ITTL? Do the Protestant sects live on like the Waldesians as a sort of side show, and Catholic Orthodoxy lives on?

It seems to me that Calvin happened upon something at a time when the printing press made it so powerful: that Catholicism was not teaching (or at least emphasizing) much of what Catholicism used to teach, even in Aquinas' time. ITTL, does the Catholic Church reform from within?

 

[Janprimus]

It is interesting that Lutheranism really has become so much different than Calvinism, as Luther probably wrote more on the subject of Monergism than Calvin (heck, he wrote a book countering Erasamus' views on freedom of the will called Bondage of the Will.)

Even standard Catholic doctrine teaches that grace precedes conversion, and grace operates in the sacraments and in the will of the believer who partakes in them.

So really, the differences between most Christianity on "Calvinist" doctrines is really quite negligible, other than the issue of limited/unlimited atonement, which is a real battleground among the two.

Most of the "free will" Protestant types really come more from Wesley and liberalism than from any more ancient origins.

The fact that Luther countered the Catholic humanist Erasmus says a lot, Erasmus even was amongst the tutors of Charles V. Charles V, a staunch Catholic, did indeed get a rather progressive education, but he still staunchly believed in the unity of the Catholic Church (with perhaps internal differences).

OTOH as a Catholic Dutchman, I know I live in a country where most Protestants are Calvinists; so perhaps my 'standard protestant' is indeed Calvinist.

Even though nowadays most Protestant Churches in the Netherlands have a united organization (Protestant Church in the Netherlands; Protestantse Kerk in Nederland (PKN)) with a degree of local autonomy; it's a merger between the Dutch Reformed Church, Reformed Churches in the Netherlands and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Kingdom of the Netherlands. However Calvinist churches in the Netherlands had a history of splitting due to theological reasons and occasionally joining again; the process, which lead to the PKN started in the 1960's, when secularization started to increase (amongst (former) Protestants and Catholics alike).

 

[ggarner57]

As a Southern Baptist (not the Primitive(actual name) group), predestination is completely alien to our system, and it seems to make evangelism pretty pointless, given our determination to convert.

 

[pattersonautobody]

As a Southern Baptist (not the Primitive(actual name) group), predestination is completely alien to our system, and it seems to make evangelism pretty pointless, given our determination to convert.

Which is an interesting, ahistorical and abiblical reason to reject a doctrine. I bring this up simply because many of the modern opponents of Calvinism have reasons such as these, but not specifically anything from a storied historical tradition whether it be the Scripture, the Church Fathers, or medieval Catholic thinkers.