Anaxagoras
Banned
Which of the following PODs would have had the most beneficial impact on the world?
(Yes, I know. I'm in a polling mood today)
(Yes, I know. I'm in a polling mood today)
The World Would be Better Off Today If . . .
- Thread starter Anaxagoras
- Start date
I voted for Woodrow Wilson my god did his vision of a nation for every ethnicity really cause problems for the world.
I would have voted for the Library of Alexandria never having burned and its vast storehouse surviving but that was not an option given.
I would have voted for the Library of Alexandria never having burned and its vast storehouse surviving but that was not an option given.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Yeah, the Alexandria Library would have been nice. I would have loved to read Borrosis' History of the World in Three Volumes.
If the Muslims were not driven out of Spain, we might see an Islamic reformation of sorts, earlier advances in Science, greater religious cross-fertilization etc. etc.
I would've liked to see an expansionist ancient china, more earlier hurdles in early civ would've been leapt over.
No Crusades would've been nice also, but then Europe would try to seek umbrage for Islamic/Arabic expansion .
I could also do without any nukes, and no space race. Perhaps we'd take this rock less for granted if we knew how slim our chances are for getting off it.
No Crusades would've been nice also, but then Europe would try to seek umbrage for Islamic/Arabic expansion .
I could also do without any nukes, and no space race. Perhaps we'd take this rock less for granted if we knew how slim our chances are for getting off it.
The POD for these would create a world that would be completely unrecognizable to us, so I couldn’t really vote for them.
Could be interesting, but I really wouldn’t say it would have a good chance to be better then the world we live in today…
Good God No (human sacrifice religion, remember?) , plus it would be completely impossible…
Different, but not better
Why in the world would this make things better
This would ruin American History…
The British and French bleed Germany even more there by giving Hitler more propaganda fodder? No, I wouldn’t say that would be better.
I’m sure most or all of our British members would say yes, but I couldn’t see how really…
Max Sinister
Banned
I'm split about Peter the Great... he modernized Russia in some ways, but he only westernized the nobles and other upper class people, while the peasants actually lost rights under his reign. (And under Catherine the maybe not so Great either.)
About Wilson: The many little national states weren't a good idea in hindsight, but letting the CPs win WW1 isn't either.
(BTW, that'd make a good POD too: US doesn't enter the war, but the Germans also don't send Lenin to Russia, but try to bring down Russia the conventional way.)
About Wilson: The many little national states weren't a good idea in hindsight, but letting the CPs win WW1 isn't either.
(BTW, that'd make a good POD too: US doesn't enter the war, but the Germans also don't send Lenin to Russia, but try to bring down Russia the conventional way.)
I think the survival of the British Empire would have been better for their African colonies.
I don't understand what's wrong with Woodrow Wilson ? He had some good ideeas ( maybe unfeasable for that period but good nevertheless ) like self-determination , disarmament , a league of nations , a fair peace treaty and so on.
I don't see how the world would have been better if some peoples had been forced to live in some autocratic empires rather than having their own state.
I don't understand what's wrong with Woodrow Wilson ? He had some good ideeas ( maybe unfeasable for that period but good nevertheless ) like self-determination , disarmament , a league of nations , a fair peace treaty and so on.
I don't see how the world would have been better if some peoples had been forced to live in some autocratic empires rather than having their own state.
I agree. People in large states like the US and UK tend to be very dismissive of "little people". I remember The Economist in their year-end issue this year lamenting the possibility of Montenegro and Serbia breaking up because "no one wants more small states in Eastern Europe". As if the opinion of the West matters at all. Get over yourself!! People have the right to live under whatever government they want, no matter how inconvenient that is for others.Andrei said:
(Yes Ubbergeek, I did just say that.)
Anyway I voted for the French winning the North American theatre of the SYW, because if Canada, especially French Canada, is bigger, we won't be as susceptible to US influence. Plus a smaller US means the English language is less likely to be as overwhelming dominant globally as it is now. And yes, that's a good thing!
(Yes Ubbergeek, I also said that.)
Woodrow Wilson is closest
What would make the world, a "better place" yet still make this world recognizable would be if the USA never enters WWI, or better yet neither Great Britain or the USA enter WWI and the Germans win the war in 1914.
No Bolshevism!
No Nazism!
No Holocaust!
No Korean War!
No Viet Nam War.
Different outcome in the Middle East, with likely no Israel ignition point!
On the other hand a different outcome for WWI could easily lead to:
A Fascist or Communist France!
A later war between Great Britain and Germany in the 1920's.
A different war in the 1940's with the French taking Germany's place
A different revolution in Russia.
A Japanese- American war in the Pacific, in 1928.
What would make the world, a "better place" yet still make this world recognizable would be if the USA never enters WWI, or better yet neither Great Britain or the USA enter WWI and the Germans win the war in 1914.
No Bolshevism!
No Nazism!
No Holocaust!
No Korean War!
No Viet Nam War.
Different outcome in the Middle East, with likely no Israel ignition point!
On the other hand a different outcome for WWI could easily lead to:
A Fascist or Communist France!
A later war between Great Britain and Germany in the 1920's.
A different war in the 1940's with the French taking Germany's place
A different revolution in Russia.
A Japanese- American war in the Pacific, in 1928.
JLCook said:
In this case Europe would have been dominated by Germany .
And there would still be a very reactionary Russia , a declining Austria-Hungary and a moribund Ottoman Empire. France and Russia would try again to defeat Germany , this time with Britain's aid.
I think that the rise of Nazism , WWII and holocaust could have been avoided if the victors of WWI ( especially France )would had applied Wilson's ideeas.
Even though in OTL , during the 20th century , Europe experienced totalitarian regimes , suffered from WWII , and then was divided by the cold war , now Europe is in a pretty good position:
Almost all states have democratic regimes , there are no more multinational states like A-H , and , more important , the states of Europe are uniting .
Saying that Europe would have been better off , if the Germans had won WWI is like saying that North America would have been better if the European Powers would had kept their colonies.
Last edited:
French win the 7 years war maybe. If it was only moderatly. This would lead to no American revolution which is our best chance for a perfect world.
Voted for the last one though even though that never happened. We're on a different level of knowledge here to the overly simplistic rubbish you get told at school.
Voted for the last one though even though that never happened. We're on a different level of knowledge here to the overly simplistic rubbish you get told at school.
Max Sinister
Banned
I think too that if the CPs win WW1, France and/or Britain could support totalitarian regimes instead of Germany. Nothing really gained. Plus, Germany would impose an economical union upon the other European states - other than OTL made in a way that it only helps Germany, like the COMECON only was good for the Soviet Union. If some decades later the other nations throw off the German yoke, the idea of a supranational union would be stained. And without Lenin in Russia (thus taking it out of the war), I can't see the CPs anyway. Even if the US stay out. Thus, "no US in WW1" doesn't lead to "no Bolshevism".