The World Born at Tilsit: A Napoleonic TL
- Thread starter Minnesota_Nationalist
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Hnau
Banned
Yes!! The phenomenal timeline continues. Finally we see some moves in the Caribbean, I wonder if this theater will see much more dramatic attacks than this. What would be the state of submarine warfare on a global scale at this point?
I think the British and their allies will have a good chance of eventually taking Panama and much more of Central America, as well as Colombia and the rest of Venezuela. Let the Russians take the brunt of the land fight, chip away at the overseas allies is the stated British strategy. Glad to see that they're supporting independence movements still! This would be quite the gain for their side, and maybe even force Mexico and California out of the war. (used OTL English names, you know what I mean)
I noticed that California contains a city called Smitheville at the Great Salt Lake. It’s an obvious place for a city. I wonder if I’m this world it was settled by a religious reformer by the last name of Smith who was a utopian secularist from New England who kinda took the style and ideology of Icarians and was also more of a leader like John Humphrey Noyes with a flair towards building a city on a hill far in the frontier. I imagine there’s less of a huge successful missionary experience overseas, and so immigration becomes more of a trickle over time, causing it to become integrated with the rest of California within a relatively short time, but still retain a unique religious and cultural flair.
I think the British and their allies will have a good chance of eventually taking Panama and much more of Central America, as well as Colombia and the rest of Venezuela. Let the Russians take the brunt of the land fight, chip away at the overseas allies is the stated British strategy. Glad to see that they're supporting independence movements still! This would be quite the gain for their side, and maybe even force Mexico and California out of the war. (used OTL English names, you know what I mean)
I noticed that California contains a city called Smitheville at the Great Salt Lake. It’s an obvious place for a city. I wonder if I’m this world it was settled by a religious reformer by the last name of Smith who was a utopian secularist from New England who kinda took the style and ideology of Icarians and was also more of a leader like John Humphrey Noyes with a flair towards building a city on a hill far in the frontier. I imagine there’s less of a huge successful missionary experience overseas, and so immigration becomes more of a trickle over time, causing it to become integrated with the rest of California within a relatively short time, but still retain a unique religious and cultural flair.
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I've looked at the TL for a bit. However, I have to wonder: just how was Russia able to get Armenia and Kurdistan? And even though the Ottomans got absolutely wrecked in Europe, would they still have some strength available to keep hold in Anatolia? IMO Egypt should've also tried to gain independence during this time in order to take advantage of the chaos.
Also, considering how the Spanish American colonies wanted independence, wouldn't they not be colored blue?
Also, considering how the Spanish American colonies wanted independence, wouldn't they not be colored blue?
Armenians revolted to join their Orthodox Brothers-in-Arms in Russia, and the Kurds similarly revolted. They kept their independence initially because Russia had quite a bit of new land still to consolidate, but were still forced to align with Russia out of feat of being devoured by their neighbors.
I imagine that Russia's desire not to dive further into Anatolia would be similar as to why they wouldn't want to take over the Kurds directly, the need to consolidate. Also because Napoleon the Great would threaten another war with Russia. Once the French and Russians agreed to partition the Post-Turkish sphere in the 3rd Explorers' War, it was all over for their de-facto independence.
Assuming that you're talking about the fall of the Ottomans in the Early 1800's, Egypt did get independence.
Did you mean Syria? If so, Syria did try, but newly establish Turkish State was able to wrest control back from still-divided-among-themselves Syrians*
If you mean why Egypt isn't trying to get Independence as of the War of the Russian Succession, well there's big ol' giant French Army right next door. It wouldn't be a very pretty time for any rebel.
*Syria as of the War of the Russia Succession initially existed entirely because Russia propped them up, but after time consolidating, they can stand on their own two legs, as shown with King Fahd.
I hand-waved this with A) Napoleon never overthrowing the Bourbon Monarchs, removing the initial spark that lit the Wars of Independence and B) Later Bourbon reforms rolling back on the caste system, removing some of the kindling, but enough remained for their still to be an underground Independence Movement.
admittedly, a lot of the first two maps were made just by pulling stuff out of arse and throwing it out there... Kinda just ran with it from there. I also kinda feat that I might be accidentally contradicting myself with some of this. Quite a lot to keep track of, you know, especially over the course of 3 years, on and off.
How was Russia able to get the Armenians to rise up? This is something I wondered why it never happened in OTL, so an explanation would be appreciated.
It was in green, so I assumed otherwise. Oops.
I meant the whole Ottoman thing, yeah. Before the Russia Succession war.
I thought the Bourbon weren't there since France had Catalonia. This is quite the mistake...
I suppose on second consideration totally not making this up as I go along it was more that Russian armies conquered the region with little protest, with Armenians opening up the gates to the cities when presented the opportunity to do so.
I quickly realized that mistake. the first world map (from 1850), mentions that Spain would sell Florida to America, sell Catalonia to France, and France would Spain pay for America's bill (with the understanding that America would be more French-friendly wink wink nudge nudge).
yeah, I recognize that the initial set-up doesn't really hold over scrutiny. It requires some pretty large grasps to keep it together
Not gonna lie, some things in the TL need to be changed for the better before everything else can go forward.
Climax of Conflict:
The world has seen great change since 1913. Millions of men have died in the Russian Wastes, with more dying in skirmishes in Africa, the Americas, and Asia. And now, the Great Nation of Russia is on the brink of collapse. The Empire of France is close to their final victory, to total domination. What has led to this situation?
Upon the death of Alexander III of Russia, he willed that his heir was to be the Russian people themselves, to establish a republic and resist the French and British empires. However, his will was contested, and his brothers Peter and Nicholas, puppets of the British and French respectively, claimed the throne, launching Europe and the World into the greatest war ever known.
France would come to invade Russia and their allies in Poland by land, advancing up to the Dnieper. Britain would invade Russia over the Baltic, and surround the former Imperial capital of Saint Petersburg. In the south, France would attack the great city of Constantinople, but would constantly be repulsed and denied the use of the Dardanelles. In Italy and Portugal, France would conquer and gain decisive control of the continent, but on the Mediterranean and Baltic waters, Britannia would continue to rule the wave. For four years, these lines in Europe would remain.
In the Near East, chaos would reign, as puppets and allies of the Great Powers danced around each others armies. King Faud of Syria would come to become a respected leader, and would slowly gain influence over much of the Arabian people, uniting his own kingdom with that of Iraq and proclaiming himself the new King of Hedjaz.
In the Far East, Japan joined the Russians against France, and they would begin their reconquest and conquest of the the West Pacific rim, from Kyushu to the Philippines and beyond. Britain would attempt to invade Russia from India through Afghanistan, only to face the treacherous Hindu Kush and their native people, a stubborn and proud people, already livid at the loss of their independence, who would harass the invaders at any chance they got.
In Africa, a series of squabbles ran up and down the continent, with the French losing much of their coastal colonies, but keeping the British at bay further inland. The ferocious Zulu people, commended by the French as the most disciplined fighting force in the world, would take on the British Empire and come out victorious, building their own empire in the southern part of the continent.
In the Americas, the old Spanish colonies, having chaffed for too long under rule from Madrid, revolts against the monarchy, a revolution propped up by the British. However unpopular the Spanish kings may be, though, there are still some true believers, and they begin a civil war in the frontiers of the colonies, burning down "treacherous" cities in the name of the King in Spain.
1917 would become the year of many changes. First, the United States of America, pressured by a growing pro-Russian and anti-French movement, declared war on France, and invaded the French allies of Mexico and California. Also in this year, the great city of Constantinople would finally fall, as would the great fortresses surrounding the Sea of Marmara, opening up passage for the French into the Black sea. At the end of the year, French soldiers would be landing on the Crimean peninsula, bypassing the meat grinder known as the Dnieper river. Britain, too, would take Saint Petersburg.
1917 would also mark the beginning of a tumultuous time in France. Early that year, the great French Emperor, Charles the Eagle, would die. His successor, Ferdinand Galtier, would be assassinated on his way from the front to Paris to be crowned as the new emperor. In his place, the young, ambitious, and arrogant Napoleon Justin Bonaparte, with help of a circle of fervent followers, would declare himself the new Emperor of France. The great generals of France, including Napoleon Justin's own father, tentatively accepted this arrangement, not wanting to destabilize France. The generals would focus on the front, and Napoleon IV would rule over domestic matters, including acting on his vendetta against Jean-Marie le Toulonnais.
Now, at the end of 1918, Britain and France are closing in on Moscow and the Republican administrative center just outside of it, in Rimlyangrad. It is generally assumed, by both Russia and her enemies, that if Rimlyangrad falls, then Russia would collapse with it, and the winner of the race to Rimlyangrad will have won the war. Indeed, la victoire finale is just within France's grasp...
~~~~~-----~~~~~
So, it's been a while for this world, hasn't it? I'll admit, this world was always held up with cardboard and duct tape, and even the lightest prodding into the logic would cause it to fall over. When people did start to prod into it (which, I should say, I don't blame you for, you are correct about it being flimsy), I became incredibly discouraged for a while, but I've felt bad about abandoning it. I don't really have the will to go through every single campaign in excruciating detail, but I do have the will to jump to the end, because I've thought about this end too much. Sunken cost fallacy and all that. It's still relying on that logic made of cardboard and duct tape, but who cares. I don't care, at least not right now. I know have different projects where the logic has to make sense.
The final part will be posted shortly
What has Europe Become: The end of the World Born at Tilsit
How the mighty fall. Just a few years prior, the mighty French Empire held domain across the world, and ruled the European continent from Lisbon to the limits of Moscow. Now, they don't even rule their own land any more.
The rule of the young and arrogant Napoleon IV proved more disastrous than any could have ever imagined. His blind fury against Le Toulonnais and his dissidents sparked a fire in France, one that would blaze out of control. When the Emperor officially declared Le Toulonnais as a traitor to France and subsequently banned any worship or praise of the much-beloved hero, there was outcry. Le Toulonnais's home city of Toulon actively protested. When the Emperor sent soldiers down to crush the protest, the army rather joined the protest, turning into a revolt. In turn, Emperor Napoleon had to draw forces from the front lines in an attempt to stop this revolt, slowing down the advancing army in Russia from reaching their final victory. Finally, the Parisian got sick of Napoleon the Arrogant, tearing him out of the Tuileries and parading him through Paris and throwing him in jail. It took the intervention of Napoleon Justin's father, Napoleon Auguste, to save the boy from execution. Thereafter, a council of ten generals, including Napoleon Auguste, would command France.
However, the Toulonnais revolt was not yet satisfied. Their own fervor had grown, and now they demanded that Francois de Toulon, son of Le Toulonnais, become Emperor of France, a demand that was rejected by the Council of Generals. More soldiers would be pulled back from the front, and as some of these soldiers abandoned France to join the Toulonnais forces, even more forces from the front would be removed, and the French advance would completely stall.
Napoleon IV was just the first Bonaparte to be overthrown. In Cassel, Westphalia, William Bonaparte would be overthrown and executed. The Germans declared a new German Kingdom of Phalia, and would convene to declare a new king. Soon thereafter, they would advance on French Germany, declaring the German Kingdom of Lower Saxony, in union with the German Kingdom of Phalia. On the front, the Westphalian forces are removed from the Armee des Allies for fear of them betraying the French forces, and summarily executed down to the man. This was not the first nor second time that the Armee had done this, but the third, and it made the other members of the Armee nervous.
It would not be long thereafter that Prussia would abandon her French overlords, reading the writing on the wall that France was collapsing. They would secretly agree to ally with the Russians, and subsequently invaded Poland in restoration of Corbinian of the House of Wettin-Poland. Prussian troops in the Armee are executed. To Prussia's south, the ever growing prowess of the German Kingdom of Phalia-Lower Saxony would lead them to conquer the Kingdom of Saxony, citing their constant Francophilia, the "Lapdogs of France in Germany," and would unite Upper Saxony in their union. Finally, in Leipzig, the council of the German Kingdom of Phalia and Two Saxonies presents their crown to the one king who dared defy the French, that of the King of Prussia. Shockingly, the Prussians rejected the offer, citing the demands of the German Kingdoms of a constitution and equal representation as unacceptable. Instead, at Leipzig, the Republic of the Three Saxonies was declared.
The Upper Saxons in the Armee were culled, and this was the final straw for all. Their soldiers were ordered to be brought home from the front. This, on top of the French having to pull back their own forces, led to a collapse of the Russian front. In Italy, the House of Savoy, confined for the last four years in Sardinia, made a triumphant return to Sicily and started their march through the Italian peninsula. Italians abandoned their Bonapartist lords in favor of the Vittorio di Savoy, who would be crowned in Rome as King of Italy. In Hungary, Louis Bonaparte was forced to abandon his French allies on pressure of the Hungarian populace. In Spain, the monarchy also decided to abandon their former ally in favor of pressing the Bourbonist claim to France, vacant for over a century at this point. Together with Britain, they invaded France to press this Bourbonist claim. In Germany, the Monarchies of Southern Germany reacted to the formation of the Republic of Three Saxonies, a state that proved vengeful towards any ally of the French, by abandoning the French and united together as the United Kingdoms of Germany, colloquially known as South Germany. Austria suffered a revolt from the Czech people, tired of their union with Austria, and rose up for independence. In Russia, Britain abandoned their adventure and signed the Treaty of Saint Petersburg. This effectively ended the hostilities of the War of the Russian Succession.
The world that was left remaining was a peculiar one. No empire had any strength or will to enforce its might across the world. France, in particular, would continue to collapse in on itself, as the Council of Generals itself would start to dissipate, with France becoming a series of warring states that no one dares intervene in, described as the most viscous of man-eating machines.
China would not fare much better. Although the Blue Banner rebellion was successful, the generals there, too, would turn on each other, dividing formerly Taiping China into its own collection of warring states.
In Arabia, King Faud of Syria-Iraq had managed to defeat his enemies across the Arabian Peninsula and had declared himself as Qaysr of Arabia, carefully choosing his title as to offend the fewest people possible. He did not consider himself a Caliph of the Sunnis or Shias, nor an Emperor like the French whom he fought against. No, he was Caesar of the Arabian people, a man to rally behind as a national, not religious, figure.
The United States had grown on the World Stage, and was officially seen as a Great Power in its own right, and grown close to its fellow republic in Russia. As the nation to face the least suffering through the seven terrible years of war, she came out very powerful and prosperous indeed, becoming the World's Foundry and Market. Things looked only up for the United States of America.
The colonies in Africa had to be abandoned by all parties, and the Spanish retreated from the Americas. There was simply no strength or will to control them anymore. Instead, the natives came to control their own destiny. Or, at least partially. In Africa, many of the pre-established native empires, namely that of the Zulus, but also the Mossi and the Sokotoites took the place of their former colonial masters in ruling over Africa. Initial celebration turned into distraught over still being ruled, this time by those closer to home. But, many of the those colonial powers left weapons behind. Years of strife would remain in Africa.
Only in India did Britain retain the will to hold onto the Jewel of the Crown, much to the chagrin of the Indians. But here, too, the colonizers had armed their subjects in order to wage their wars. Too many Indians had died in the passes of the Hindu Kush in vain just to be told to surrender their weapons and return to subjugation. Here too, there would be strife. Britain fights to retain the last European (non-settler) colony, but it is a losing battle. Britain still retains its settler colonies of Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, though.
In the Western Pacific, Japan has proven itself a formidable presence. From control of three of the four main islands of the Japanese Archipelago to controlling all four as well as the Philippines, and asserting influence over the Malaynesians and Indochina. Japan, too, had burst onto the scene as a Great Power, ready to take on the position that Europe had just abandoned in Asia.
In Russia, once the most autocratic and tyrannical of the former Great Powers, suddenly finds itself more democratic than Britain. The new Russian Republic would find itself in company with many sister republics, some of which sprouted from within the Russian Republic itself, such as Finland, Armenia, or Azerbaijan. As President Isaac Petrov would say "They were not Russian, so why should they be ruled by the Russian Republic?" However, it wasn't all benevolence in Russia, for when the people of Belarus and Ukraine approached Petrov, stating that they, too, weren't Russian and thus should be independent, Isaac Petrov replied that of course they were Russian, spitefully driving a wedge between what should have brother peoples and leading towards resentment...
And so, while the world we once knew has shattered, history goes on...
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What a bittersweet end to the TL.
All I got to say is that you did your best no matter the end product.
All I got to say is that you did your best no matter the end product.
As a long-time fan of this TL, I'm glad to see a post of this timeline once more again.
Though, it is a bummer to see the French Empire fall of grace this way. It does garner the question, what if the French won the War of Russian Succession? French world domination maybe???
Though, it is a bummer to see the French Empire fall of grace this way. It does garner the question, what if the French won the War of Russian Succession? French world domination maybe???
Wow, this was simply an amazing timeline @Minnesota_Nationalist! The maps were extremely well-done. I liked how Europe ended up being divided in the end. What a long, sad war... yet it gave the continent a new lease on life! I think this world has a bright future. Will you post these in the Finished Timeline forum?