The Whale has Wings

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sonofpegasus

Here in Switzerland it is apparently the coldest and wettest summer since 1982! Just my luck.:eek: Is a hot dragon an angry dragon?:confused: I thought Dragons liked barbequing knights;)
Time to get back on thread I think.
 

Astrodragon

Cymraeg said:
Well, it's 30C here in London at the moment, and is projected to get to 33C tomorrow in places. That's a bit warm for us. I've been forced into shorts and sandals. Oh and the fridge died today. Lovely.
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I guess the sight of you in shorts was too much for the poor thing...:p
 

Salamander

Cymraeg said:
Well, it's 30C here in London at the moment, and is projected to get to 33C tomorrow in places. That's a bit warm for us. I've been forced into shorts and sandals. Oh and the fridge died today. Lovely.
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A balmy 5'C mid-winter day here in Invercargill. -4 over night, still frost on the ground and the temp is falling already. Still, at least there is no wind from the south, ie: from Antarctica. Honestly, nothing between here and the ice but a couple of penguins.
 
1965 Timelord

1965 Timelord

Allied Japanese Bomber Raids in The Whale Has Wings

It's too bad that my 1st post wasn't an true Astrodragon entry but to straight to the topic. I remember my war history about CBI theatre campaign between 1942 -1943 that the bombing campaign against Japan had a slow start due to the logistic problems of transportation of all types of bombers in China. There's was a possible bombing raid that preposed by Col. Claire Lee Chennault to bomb Japan in 1941 with Lockheed Hudson bombers and was depicted in the Antarctic Press comic series Luftwaffe 1942. The raid was canceled due to the Pearl Harbour Raid and USA has lost an great opportunity to get revenge from the Japanese air raid. As for the Flying Tigers, they were promised a full squadron of B-25 but the B-25s could not make to their designated landing air base due to being forced to fly out after being discovered by IJN picket boat and thus flying with less fuel for the raid and crashing down in captured or contested Chinese territory. The really first bomber raids in CBI were in Japanese occupied territory in March 1943 with the Flying Tigers as 14th USAAF Air Force group with their B-25Cs and later, B-24s.

Now what will Astrodragon do to make an Allied Joint CBI Air Command for the actual raids that may be based from Burma, Laos, Vietnam, and in China for setup , actual bombers (like the Halifax, Coventry, Lancaster or the Sterling, B-17, B-24, B-18, B-25, B-26, A-20, A-26, Baltimore, Maryland, Hampton, Beau Bomber and Beaufighter, and the Mosquito variants), and finally the nasty Japanese cities's night wakeup call date.
 

usertron2020

Donor
1965 Timelord

Throwing a heavy bomber into China, even with improved logistics, effectively means 2 or 3 less heavy bombers in Europe, perhaps worse. China is a black hole of efforts for Western Allied resources, as [SIZE=-4]astrodragon[/SIZE] has made clear. He's sending just enough American help to keep China from collapsing, and remaining a sufficiently strong military force to keep up pressure on the IJA to keep them from mass withdrawal from China back to the Home Islands.

Lotsa Luck. IIRC, some $2,000,000,000 (in forties dollars!) in US aid to Chaing between 1941 and 1950 went straight to Switzerland.:mad: At least Harry Truman had much more open eyes than FDR about the KMT (not just the Reds).
 
1965 Timelord

1965 Timelord

Allied Japanese Bomber Raids in The Whale Has Wings reply

Well, maybe the European Theatre Campaigns may suffer the shortage but Japanese must be further reminded that their war is lost for good and only way they'll get the message is being firebombed 24 hrs. and every week. Because they're not going to be invaded until late 1945 and the Kempeitai has suppressed the truth from the Japanese citizens throughout the war until late 1944 when the B-29 raids started. So the earlier need to for the Japanese to face reality is to see their land burned and cratered, will make them to decide if their honour is worth a Masada scenario or rebel against their Militant government. The flight of bombers don't have to be full squadrons like in the European air campaign, only start small and gradually grow big as more resources are possible. Japanese Imperial Navy and Army aren't shrinking their egos to start acting like the Luftwaffe on their air defence. So just Japanese air campaign is still possible with this scenario.:cool:
 

usertron2020

Donor
1965 Timelord said:
Well, maybe the European Theatre Campaigns may suffer the shortage but Japanese must be further reminded that their war is lost for good and only way they'll get the message is being firebombed 24 hrs. and every week. Because they're not going to be invaded until late 1945 and the Kempeitai has suppressed the truth from the Japanese citizens throughout the war until late 1944 when the B-29 raids started. So the earlier need to for the Japanese to face reality is to see their land burned and cratered, will make them to decide if their honour is worth a Masada scenario or rebel against their Militant government. The flight of bombers don't have to be full squadrons like in the European air campaign, only start small and gradually grow big as more resources are possible. Japanese Imperial Navy and Army aren't shrinking their egos to start acting like the Luftwaffe on their air defence. So just Japanese air campaign is still possible with this scenario.:cool:
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EUROPE FIRST.

You have to draw the line somewhere even ITTL.

Besides, having a gradual buildup in terms of a strategic bombing campaign against Japan? You risk what happened with Germany. They had years with which to buildup their strategic air defenses against an initially very anemic and primitive 1940 British RAF Bomber Command. At the start they were fighting way out of their depth (even at night) deep into German territory, and the various odds and sods the Germans mustered quickly were enough to at least make daylight or pinpoint bombings impossible. By the time the older British prewar or early war models were either used up or pushed aside and the Lancasters (or better ITTL IIRC) arrived, they faced serious hardened opposition that lasted until the end of the war/fuel was cutoff for the night fighters.

Japan? Peace and quiet until October 1944, when the bombings started. They were expecting it, and earlier on only Kyushu was being hit, but that was bad enough nonetheless.

Initial Japanese resistance was so weak (due to poor to no Japanese radar, outranged AA guns, interceptors fighting at their extreme ceiling limits) that distance, the jet stream, and poor logistics (while coming from China) were a bigger killer for the B-29s. And after Saipan (and later Iwo Jima) opened for business, just the jet stream. Then when LeMay went to night bombing? Not even the jet stream. Japan was positively ripe for doing it the RAF way:). The boys of Saipan faced just Japanese AA and the occasional night fighter.

I think you are underestimating the level of faith the Japanese people had in not only the Emperor but his "blessed advisors". I've never heard of any talk in WWII Imperial Japan along the lines of Nazi Germany's "If only the Fuehrer knew". But after an invasion of Honshu, who knows?
 
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Astrodragon

Once the Allies have Japan safely isolated, the intention is a twofold attack.

A submarine campaign to destroy imports, and a bombing campaign to level industry and cities.

The bombing campaign has to wait on close enough bases, and the submarine campaign on either working US torpedoes or the Allies retaking FIC or the PI to free up the RN's T-class.
 

Tyg

Astrodragon said:
A submarine campaign to destroy imports, and a bombing campaign to level industry and cities.

The bombing campaign has to wait on close enough bases, and the submarine campaign on either working US torpedoes or the Allies retaking FIC or the PI to free up the RN's T-class.
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The fact that the Japanese have failed to secure anything more than the Philippines suggests that quite a few imports are already blocked. I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese were already starving or at least in very rough shape by the time a sustained bombing campaign begins.
 

Gannt the chartist

IJN supplies

Ok the RN is good but 53 T class will not bring them in begging for mercy.


At the moment I would imagine the Japanese supply situation not too shabby.


Fuel oil demand has gone way down. They have enough Avgas (according to the USSBS anyway) to last well into 44.


Probably enough lootable foodstuffs from FIC and the PI to make the same difference as OTL to home food consumption.


A few more shortages really just give the people of the home islands the chance to show proper bushido spirit.


Although the development of a true strategic bombing capability put of China, all it takes is a mere two dozen US divisions ..... go on Astro you know you want to :D
 
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