The US buys more of the Russian Empire
- Thread starter Super_Cool
- Start date
The former was never my argument.
My argument is that just because the US 'bought' a lot IOTL doesn't mean everyone was desperate to sell to them and all they needed was money to buy more.
ninebucks
Banned
But such an attack would be much more suicidal in TTL. In my opinion, a Japanese-American war is much less likely in such a timeline, as all the Japanese would realise how vulnerable they are to counterattack.
In fact, I think such a TL would provide a much more peaceful East Asia as pax americana helps keep US-friendly authorities in power and discourages up-and-comers from rebelling against the established order.
Paul V McNutt
Banned
I think considering the reality of the U.S. Defense spending during the period before World War II, the Territory of Kamachtka would be as well defended as the Commonwealth of the Phillipines, so I think there would a successful Japanese attack. This offensive would, however, be a serious drain of Japanese troops and effect thier operations elsewhere.
Course we're assuming a lot that there would be a WWII, in the same form anyway
The U.S. sent some troops to fight the reds in Pacific Russia in OTL.
But Japan sent a lot more and stuck around longer because it was more in their interest to do so.
With the U.S. having a vested interest in propping the white's up, and with the Japanese having a vested interest in propping the white's up your going to see a lot more coordination. Not the least of which being that anyway you look at Korea(chosan) and Japan are going to make very useful staging area's to supply the White's just logistically.
Also with the UK and French not taking it as seriously (i.e. the Great War being such a drain and wanting to get back to normalcy) as the Japanese that is just going to drive the USA closer to their 'ally' Japan. Who is fighting the communists with them.
This makes for an interesting period, there was a lot of dissent in the USA over Versailles not being a just peace Wilsons 14 points essentially getting scrapped. There was a lot of dissent in Japan over not being treated as an equal at Versailles. Yes some of that was caused by the U.S. wanting to contain Japanese ambitions there but France and the UK we're looking to do that as well.
End result with the USA and Japan having a vested interest in putting together a viable Russian State (Puppet or otherwise) in Pacific Russia. It becomes far more likely a viable White State can emerge. Whole of Russia I don't think is possible. Either way the fact that there is little to no chance of that getting done without shooting also means that the force's that serve together training the White's are going to establish some camaraderie.
Even if not and they get pushed into the sea/Korea together it's going to make them want to cooperate to contain the communist threat. US-Japan Comintern Mutual Defense Pact?
I'm not proposing a US-Japan Axis WWII, I'm just saying it becomes far more likely that a US-Japanese detente could result from this. Which changes the intervening years greatly.
The best example to my mind is the Washington Naval Treaty in a few years very interesting since it was the USA that cracked the Japanese Diplomatic Codes that gave them the uper-hand in keeping the Japanese Naval Ratio lower in comparisons with the other Naval Powers.
A USA that see's Japan as an ally in containing the reds or a partner in White Russia isn't going to be looking to constrain their naval buildup especially as with closer relations it will be clear that Japan can't afford to out build the USA Anyway.
The U.S. sent some troops to fight the reds in Pacific Russia in OTL.
But Japan sent a lot more and stuck around longer because it was more in their interest to do so.
With the U.S. having a vested interest in propping the white's up, and with the Japanese having a vested interest in propping the white's up your going to see a lot more coordination. Not the least of which being that anyway you look at Korea(chosan) and Japan are going to make very useful staging area's to supply the White's just logistically.
Also with the UK and French not taking it as seriously (i.e. the Great War being such a drain and wanting to get back to normalcy) as the Japanese that is just going to drive the USA closer to their 'ally' Japan. Who is fighting the communists with them.
This makes for an interesting period, there was a lot of dissent in the USA over Versailles not being a just peace Wilsons 14 points essentially getting scrapped. There was a lot of dissent in Japan over not being treated as an equal at Versailles. Yes some of that was caused by the U.S. wanting to contain Japanese ambitions there but France and the UK we're looking to do that as well.
End result with the USA and Japan having a vested interest in putting together a viable Russian State (Puppet or otherwise) in Pacific Russia. It becomes far more likely a viable White State can emerge. Whole of Russia I don't think is possible. Either way the fact that there is little to no chance of that getting done without shooting also means that the force's that serve together training the White's are going to establish some camaraderie.
Even if not and they get pushed into the sea/Korea together it's going to make them want to cooperate to contain the communist threat. US-Japan Comintern Mutual Defense Pact?
I'm not proposing a US-Japan Axis WWII, I'm just saying it becomes far more likely that a US-Japanese detente could result from this. Which changes the intervening years greatly.
The best example to my mind is the Washington Naval Treaty in a few years very interesting since it was the USA that cracked the Japanese Diplomatic Codes that gave them the uper-hand in keeping the Japanese Naval Ratio lower in comparisons with the other Naval Powers.
A USA that see's Japan as an ally in containing the reds or a partner in White Russia isn't going to be looking to constrain their naval buildup especially as with closer relations it will be clear that Japan can't afford to out build the USA Anyway.
Paul V McNutt
Banned
I can´t see U.S. opinion in the twenties allowing for a mutual defense pact , even against Communists. Nor do I see how the events described in the brecarious´s post would have stopped the rise of the Japanese militarists.
Hey Cabbit, I'm currently working on a TL where the US annexes the Dominican Republic. Your tl has an interesting premise, and, since our ideas don't directly contradict each other, want to merge them? (if this was an extremely n00bish question, tell me and I'll go crawl in a hole and die
)
)That is a great idea, Brecarious. I think that with Amero-Japanese cooperation against the Reds and Soviet-German military cooperation we could see a World War II with a Pacific front that has Soviets fighting Japanese and Americans, no Eastern front, and a much more succuesful western front for the Nazis. This could lead to a Nazi-Soviet-American Cold War, with America and the Nazis eclipsing the Soviet Union. This would be because the Cold War would strain the Soviet Union more than the other powers because it would be sandwiched between the US and Germany.
I am not sure about that, but who is to say that the increased American interests in the region wouldn't prompt them to try and support the more moderate factions of Japanese politics?
Hey Cabbit, I'm currently working on a TL where the US annexes the Dominican Republic. Your tl has an interesting premise, and, since our ideas don't directly contradict each other, want to merge them? (if this was an extremely n00bish question, tell me and I'll go crawl in a hole and die
Hiya! As much as I'd love to merge them I couldn't keep up on any set writing pattern, but you can use the ideas and I'll read them. I want to keep researching for mine so I'll be busy but Thanks for the interest!!
Never had anyone ask to merge timelines... hmm wonder if that would be like crossing the streams... Paul V McNutt
Banned
The Japanese militarists took power when the Japanese people were suffering through the depression and taking the coal and iron fields of Manchuria seemed like a good idea to the desperate people of Japan. That doesn´t change with the U.S. being a next door neighbor. Not only could President Hoover or Roosevelt not sell an alliance with an aggressive power, but selling a military alliance to voters who did not want to get involved with other countries would be a tough task, to say the least. Remember the first time the U.S. entered a peacetime military alliance was during the Cold War.